Alcohol in the workplace

[Smurf1976]

Just wondering what others think of the following situation? As someone who drinks very moderately, my view might be a bit different to the mainstream.

Situation as follows.

Small workplace within a large organisation. The work done involves mechanical / electrical tasks and associated driving, use of machinery, working around hazardous substances and so on. So there is an inherent danger associated with the work.

A trend has developed where workers drink beer at the end of the day. This started as an end of week thing only with a strictly enforced policy that it not commence until 15 minutes before finishing time. It was that way for atleast a decade, probably longer. Anyone required to work overtime (or during the day after some official company lunchtime function etc) was under orders not to consume alcohol, failure to comply risking their employment.

To cut a long story short, now it seems to be a 3 (sometimes 5) day a week occurrence with an increasing trend for the manager to over-rule the supervisor on the 15 minute requirement.

The supervisor belives that the 15 minute requirement, which was set at that time due to some Award stating that staff have 15 minutes at the end of the day to wash hands, shower etc, ought to be strictly enforced. Either that or an outright ban on consuming alcohol at work becomes the only other sensible option.

What I'm worried about is (listed in no particular order):

1. Massive social pressure on everyone to drink when it becomes part of the workplace culture. This includes some with a zero alcohol requirement on their drivers' license (every person who works there drives home) and others who would prefer to drink less but feel socially pressured to do otherwise in order to "fit in".

2. Legal liability of the supervisor (as distinct from the manager who is senior) in the event the supervisor allocates overtime or on-call work to someone they know has been drinking. What happens in the event of a workplace accident?

3.If it's OK to be drinking an hour before you finish work then why not just do it all day? Surely this is going to end up with people drinking at lunchtime etc? That then makes for an incredibly unsafe workplace given machinery etc. Already there have been instances of workers turning up unfit to work.

4. Loss of company reputation. A number of technical underperformances have already occurred involving workers on paid overtime who had been drinking. With no formal policy, the apparent view of the manager and the actual task not requiring driving, there is no mandate for the supervisor or other staff to take any action over this.

5. Legal liability of the supervisor, manager and/or company in relation to all of the above. That's the one I'm really worried about - I just can't see this ending well.

6. Any other serious issues? No doubt there's plenty I've missed.

So, what do others think? I'm not a drinking person as I said at the start, but I've got no problem with a rule that states 15 minutes. Everyone knows where they stand, if it's official wash up time then there is no dangerous work beign done unless someone is working late (in which case they wouldn't be drinking), nobody's going to get drunk in that time and so on. Maybe still not ideal, but it seems a reasonable "keep the peace" compromise to me. Someone else I spoke with thought 10 minutes would be better.

But with the way it is now, it's only a matter of time before someone who should be zero gets put on the breatho, someone has an accident at work etc. Then what happens? I'm guessing that's when lawyers get involved and the whole thing turns nasty?

 

[Smurf1976]

Addition to previous post.

I should point out that overall I think the manager is doing a pretty good job. This is thus about a single workplace issue, and a rather difficult one, rather than overall management etc. Just thought I'd clarify that.

 

[lucas]

I feel for you in your position. It's not an easy one.

I wonder if there is a leader of the drinking pack. With a brain.

If so, perhaps you - yes you - can have a word with him - friendly like - and suggest that things might go bad if this is not reined in. "He wouldn't like to see this privilege lost, would he?" sort of thing. Just kind of drop the idea in - don't argue it. Let him come to that conclusion.

But very difficult because wowsering is considered as bad as dobbing in - and, of course, you are guilty of neither - it's just that people in workplaces can close ranks.

 

[IFocus]

Smurf lots of liabilities but briefly

If there is drinking at the work place and its condoned by the organization / company at end of working hours then there are liabilities for the organization if there is a road accident etc.

If there is drinking and and its only OK by the manager not the organization the manager collects the train. There should be an organizational policy some where on this.

If a supervisor directs some one to carry out a task knowing they had been drinking his house is on the line so to speak its a fitness for work responsibility.

Works places here in the west that I know well allow no alcohol on site and the work force is drug tested and 0.00 is the pass.

 

[Happy]

Smurf lots of liabilities but briefly

If there is drinking at the work place and its condoned by the organization / company at end of working hours then there are liabilities for the organization if there is a road accident etc.

Company has no legal leg to stand on.

Consumption of alcohol cannot be even carried on the Co premises, but I can have incorrect information.

The only question I have, how can you change such a culture?

 

[tigerboi]

Re: Alcohol in the workplace is looking for trouble

Just wondering what others think of the following situation? As someone who drinks very moderately, my view might be a bit different to the mainstream.

Situation as follows.

Small workplace within a large organisation. The work done involves mechanical / electrical tasks and associated driving, use of machinery, working around hazardous substances and so on. So there is an inherent danger associated with the work.

Just wondering if this is a wind up? i work in the road transport industry driving b/doubles interstate & also have a forklift licence.heavy vehicle drivers limit is 0.02(meaning zero)this practice of alcohol consumption at work is strictly forbidden,come to work with a drop of drink is instant dismissal.

safety is always paramount in these industries & must be respected otherwise you will get hurt or killed quite easily

so let me see,mechanical/electrical,driving,machinery & haz mat such as dangerous goods & the company lets you drink on the premises shheesh...potential for one or several to get themselves killed & all for a drink...seen it happen & it aint pretty...

company will be up for millions,my recommendation is to cease this asap,yep i know the old..we cant get drunk etc...best knocking it on the head before workcover gets a whiff & comes in & puts a microscope up all your asses...

remember this...its not an office piss up as you have electrical,machinery,vehicles & hazmat...as you say yourself "inherent danger"

best to stop imo...tb

 

[Sean K]

Re: Alcohol in the workplace is looking for trouble

so let me see,mechanical/electrical,driving,machinery & haz mat such as dangerous goods & the company lets you drink on the premises

tb, there is a gap between the comma and the following word. Also after periods.

It would behoove you to take your eyes off the road for a bit, and learn some grammar.

Although, you do seem to be posting here quite a bit! Perhaps you have a dish on the cabin roof? So, do a web search on it while you're cruising about.

kennas

 

[DB008]

I've had so many friends die from drink driving (last one was just before x-mas) and totally hate people that drink and drive. Fines should be increased 10 fold and cars confiscated IMO.

If a culture of drinking does start at your workplace, you can only voice your concerns l guess. It doesn't mean that you have to drink too, if you don't want to.
Just because someone does something, you don't have to follow, do you??? That said, it's easier said than done. Peer pressure can be very, very hard at the best of times.
That's about all l have to say on this. Good luck Smurf

 

[cuttlefish]

Re: Alcohol in the workplace is looking for trouble

Just wondering if this is a wind up? i work in the road transport industry driving b/doubles interstate & also have a forklift licence.heavy vehicle drivers limit is 0.02(meaning zero)this practice of alcohol consumption at work is strictly forbidden,come to work with a drop of drink is instant dismissal.

safety is always paramount in these industries & must be respected otherwise you will get hurt or killed quite easily

so let me see,mechanical/electrical,driving,machinery & haz mat such as dangerous goods & the company lets you drink on the premises shheesh...potential for one or several to get themselves killed & all for a drink...seen it happen & it aint pretty...

company will be up for millions,my recommendation is to cease this asap,yep i know the old..we cant get drunk etc...best knocking it on the head before workcover gets a whiff & comes in & puts a microscope up all your asses...

remember this...its not an office piss up as you have electrical,machinery,vehicles & hazmat...as you say yourself "inherent danger"

best to stop imo...tb

Yeah I agree - its pretty appalling that its being allowed. My understanding is that anyone in a supervisory role that condones this, or even allows this could find themselves on serious criminal charges if there is a workplace accident and someone is found to have alcohol in their system as a result of activity condoned by the supervisor.

I doubt the supervisor would have much of an out by saying their manager overruled them (particularly if it was all done verbally) - they are still allowing people under their direct supervision to carry out the behaviour.

I'm assuming the manager is participating in the drinking? Or just allowing it to occur?

 

[awg]

Just wondering what others think of the following situation? As someone who drinks very moderately, my view might be a bit different to the mainstream.



5. Legal liability of the supervisor, manager and/or company in relation to all of the above. That's the one I'm really worried about - I just can't see this ending well.



So, what do others think? I'm not a drinking person as I said at the start, but I've got no problem with a rule that states 15 minutes. Everyone knows where they stand, if it's official wash up time then there is no dangerous work beign done unless someone is working late (in which case they wouldn't be drinking), nobody's going to get drunk in that time and so on. Maybe still not ideal, but it seems a reasonable "keep the peace" compromise to me. Someone else I spoke with thought 10 minutes would be better.



Hi Smurf,

I can understand because I have seen a similar situation.

What I would suggest is to send an email to your manager saying you wish to discuss an "OHS issue regarding alcohol"

with minimal details, keep a copy yourself. That MAY cover you legally

(Maybe) prepare a summary similar to what you gave here, taylored a bit maybe and discuss the issue with him, give him a copy and keep one for yourself.

you are between a rock and a hard place, you will get pilloried if you play it wrong.

the other thing you could do is turn a complete blind eye.

if you are a union member, your union may be able to advise your rights and responsibilities.

in my experience if the boss is a pisspot, you will have no chance of success.

My understanding of OHS regs is that management, workers and supervisors are jointly and severally liable for breaches of safety

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: Alcohol in the workplace is looking for trouble

Just wondering if this is a wind up?

Unfortunately not. It's all true, all I've done is left out a few specifics to avoid identification of people, company etc.

I must emphasise that I'm talking about people drinking on paid work time and not being drunk at work. Legally there's probably not much difference, but I do make the point that we don't have people staggering around all day.

Main reason I posted was to find out what others think. I drink (at home / weekends etc not at work) far less than what I'd consider average so I was thinking that maybe I was taking a somewhat harsh view on the issue. Judging by the posts thus far, I'm not being too harsh at all which has given me some confidence on this one.

What now? I've discussed the issue with 4 people today and so far, so good. One hates anything to do with lawyers and sees the entire legal system as a load of nonsense but they acknowledge my point about drinking at work. And they're one of the people doing the drinking. Tomorrow is the big day when everyone there is going to hear it so things could get interesting.

I've spent rather a lot of time thinking about this, what's going on, how it started and so on. It's been a gradual process that ultimately I think has its seeds in another issue that took years to resolve and caused quite a bit of unrest. Management subsequently hasn't wanted to rock the boat and some have taken advantage of that.

I'm not certain on the legal aspects, but drinks in the office (which ought to be a reasonably safe environment) 15 minutes before the end of the day on Friday afternoon (with no potentially hazardous work being done) is one thing and that's where it started. I know that quite a few workplaces do things like that. But drinks well before finishing time several days a week, with potentially hazardous work still to be done, is a far more serious situation in my opinion and that's what started me worrying about the whole issue.

I must say that so far this whole thing has been somewhat educational for me. I can see how so many people end up in legal trouble now that I've heard "we're mates so it just won't happen - you're worrying too much" so many times. Some people seem incredibly naive - in my experience of the world everything changes once a large amount of money becomes involved and in most cases any notion of friendship, loyalty etc simply disappears.

I must say though, my research and consideration of this has found that there are plenty of other companies with similar or worse situations. It seems to be a case of the smaller the company, the more likely it is for this sort of thing to happen. You won't see it at BHP etc but I've heard a real horror story about a building site (one that makes my own situation seem trivial).