This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Alan Kohler's Take on High Frequency Trading

Jump to new
Starcraftmazter said:
How is it stupid, it's common sense. They close their positions at the end of a day.
Click to expand...
Hahahahahahahhah

Like I said clueless. You assume they do. I see very little evidence that they exist like you think they do. What I know is that they are arb bots if anything and they do not close out at the end of the day. They hold until expiry where they can unroll the arb.

Starcraftmazter said:
That means they do not make money from value created overtime by companies. That implies that for every $1 they make - someone really true has to lose $1.

Prove me wrong.
Click to expand...

There is no diff from you buying a share and closing it in 3 months as an "investor" or me buying it and selling it in 3 minutes. We are all just playing pass the parcel. (unless you only involve yourself in Cap raising & IPO's)

Maybe when you start trading you will be able to understand.
 
Trembling Hand said:
Skc

Yep got the email off eventually but that was the original one he gave.

But I really am waiting with great anticipation for the results of the next bot to rob retail of their hard earned.

And yep I've well and truly blown my stop!!
Click to expand...

It's less than 24h of data, can't I get at least a month? I doubt anyone has ever learned anything from a single day's data.....

Trembling Hand said:
Hahahahahahahhah

Like I said clueless. You assume they do.
Click to expand...

Says so on wikipedia buddy. Don't argue with wikipedia.

Trembling Hand said:
There is no diff from you buying a share and closing it in 3 months as an "investor" or me buying it and selling it in 3 minutes.
Click to expand...

Except that they can do it in 300 microseconds.
 
Starcraftmazter said:
It's less than 24h of data, can't I get at least a month? I doubt anyone has ever learned anything from a single day's data.....
Click to expand...

Of course you can but you asked for a "sample"

so what will be the excuse after I give you 3 months of tick data?

Says so on wikipedia buddy. Don't argue with wikipedia.
Click to expand...
Well I guess when you don't trade like yourself you are left with whatever is on wiki.

Except that they can do it in 300 microseconds.
Click to expand...
So can you if you're smart enough.
 
Trembling Hand said:
Of course you can but you asked for a "sample"

so what will be the excuse after I give you 3 months of tick data?
Click to expand...

I contend that the sample is not a fully realistic snapshot of what the HFTers have available, since they know orders coming in with more time precision than what you have given me.

I was also hoping for a data of a stock's trading, like an ASX8 stock.

Nevertheless, there may well be ways to profit from patterns embedded within.

My idea would be to write an algorithm which tries to find patterns associated with coming market direction. The more data I have the better.

Also don't expect anything soon, I'm a busy man (posting here all day takes a lot of time you know).

Trembling Hand said:
Well I guess when you don't trade like yourself you are left with whatever is on wiki.
Click to expand...

I don't see how me buying or selling some shares in some stocks tells me whether HFTers have their positions closed by the end of the day or not.

Wikipedia is instant access to reliable data.
 
Just because the algos are 'flat' by EOD, doesn't mean they have closed positions. It just means they are running a flat book! Nothing else!

Also, in line with what TH said about pass the parcel, all global markets are a continuous auction serviced by a limit order book. Timeframe has sweet-f-all to do with it. It's about two participants meeting at a particular price and volume!

I hate this argument you are forcing, because I feel I have legitimate beef (quote stuffing, flash orders, propagation of systematic issues, etc) with HFT and you have continuously derailed the discussion or reduced it to levels where logical contributions are moot as everyone spends their time explaining reality to you, again.
 

Sinner I agree with you there is some things that HFT do that are a genuine worry. But I don't see any of that stuff on the ASX out side the few bot blowups/"fatfingers" I've seen.

Stupidly Alan Kohler has taken the existence of co-located servers to be bots "quote stuffing, flash orders etc". That's just a plain beat up and the Muppets swallow it whole.
 
Starcraftmazter said:
How am I trolling? I just want a far game where everyone has equal access.
Click to expand...

Fair?

Stars I also have a strong sense of fair play. Whenever I got into a dust up, I always fought fair... Marquis of Queensbury rules and all that. The first time I had sand thrown in my face and kicked in the nuts I realized life is not fair.

My dad died on my birthday... that wasn't bloody fair either.

In my current business, my competition is not playing fair, but along the way I've learned a few dirty tricks as well, so if thems the rules then I'll play by those rules or quit the game. I play the game to hold my own and not destroy, that is my ethics, but I still have to practice the dark arts in order to hold my own.

Likewise in trading. If someone is playing dirty, I want to learn the rules of war so I can counterpunch successfully... and I want to pick battles I can win. HFT is so far removed from my battlefield that I couldn't give a fat rat's @ss about them. That is a battle I can't win so I just don't compete there.

Do they take from my profits? Nup! Because I don't compete with them.

Ma & Pa Investor even less so.

In fact for the average retail trader, HFT is such a non-issue it's laughable.
 

Great post Wayne, makes me curious as to what SCM's opinion on short selling is? If HFTing is unfair....is short selling unfair?

CanOz
 
CanOz said:
Great post Wayne, makes me curious as to what SCM's opinion on short selling is? If HFTing is unfair....is short selling unfair?

CanOz
Click to expand...

"Short Selling" is a very sweeping description. Do you mean:
1. Large scale Hedge Fund "Naked Short Selling";
2. Pitiful scale Mum & Pop "Naked Short Selling";
3. Hedge Funds borrowing large parcels of shares for a fee from the super funds then driving the market down simply because they can make a profit from the drop and any recovery before handing the borrowed shares back;
4. Mum and Pop shorting the market through CFD's; or
5. Something else?

Personally 2 & 4 don't bother me. 1 and 3 give me the shirts because it is just manipulation of the market to profiteer in my opinion. However, each to their own.
Any rate please don't respond to this here as I think we are getting off topic from Kohlers article.

As has been demonstrated over the last 9 pages, Mr Kohler appears to have gone to press with what can only be described as a factualy bereft generalisation, sensational more for what he appears to have mixed up, got wrong or is simply guessing about. A pity really when a google search found plenty of other fairly well balanced articles that better explained Algorithmic trading and HFT's.
 
Starcraftmazter said:
Holy crap, that's precisely what I'm saying.

Don't know why I even bother arguing when I'm obviously right. Wasting my time trying to make people understand and all.
Click to expand...

Excellent, so we can get down to the problems with what you're saying then:

1. Co-location.

Yup. Ok.

2. Algos

GE Example: First of all its an insto big swinging dick that is prepared to push a DOW component 2%.
Not Joe. The insto BSD is trying to reduce market impact. A predator algo finds it. Thats nature.
A retail trader is not going to do his share in blocks. He will do 20 shares and get instantly done. Algos will ping up and see nothing come back.
You also have to keep in mind the US mkt has many separate exchanges which is why the algo can exploit it against opposing orders and/or dark pools.

3. Flash Orders

No-one uses it anymore.

4. Rebates.

Aus does not have it.
 

Yep Sky.

As I said before.

wayneL said:
Do they take from my profits? Nup! Because I don't compete with them.

Ma & Pa Investor even less so.

In fact for the average retail trader, HFT is such a non-issue it's laughable.
Click to expand...

:sleeping:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Should high frequency trading be banned?
Replies
12
Views
5K
CanOz
S
HFT backflip complete!
Replies
6
Views
5K
CanOz
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more...