AFL Coach Roundabout

[Duckman#72]

Evening All

Take a break from the on market carnage and tell me your thoughts on the AFL coaching roundabout.

There are now four teams that will be looking for a new coach next year - Essendon, Freo, Melbourne and Carlton.

a) Who do you think will be going where?

b) Do you think Voss will be coaching next year?

c) Will Essendon appoint an ex Bomber?

d) Will there be any other changes? Essendon has already sounded out Mark Thompson and Mark Williams.

For what it's worth. If given the chance I think Harvey would take the Essendon job but I don't think he'll be asked. For mine - I think Neale Daniher for the Bombers. Possibly Sheedy for Melbourne would be a good fit. Harvey will take up the Freo job and I think a bolter for Carlton will be Damien Hardwick.

I don't rate Connelly that highly. I think he'll miss out - as will Vossy this time around.

Duckman

 

[AussiePaul72]

Evening All

Take a break from the on market carnage and tell me your thoughts on the AFL coaching roundabout.

There are now four teams that will be looking for a new coach next year - Essendon, Freo, Melbourne and Carlton.

a) Who do you think will be going where?

b) Do you think Voss will be coaching next year?

c) Will Essendon appoint an ex Bomber?

d) Will there be any other changes? Essendon has already sounded out Mark Thompson and Mark Williams.

For what it's worth. If given the chance I think Harvey would take the Essendon job but I don't think he'll be asked. For mine - I think Neale Daniher for the Bombers. Possibly Sheedy for Melbourne would be a good fit. Harvey will take up the Freo job and I think a bolter for Carlton will be Damien Hardwick.

I don't rate Connelly that highly. I think he'll miss out - as will Vossy this time around.

Duckman

G'day Duckman!

I also think Neil Daniher to go with the Bombers and Sheedy with Melbourne is a good fit for both clubs. I rate both coaches reasonably highly. Not that it will happen i don't think but i also think someone like Sheedy would fit well with the Dockers.....the club has the players but needs some passion and grit for which Sheedy is well re-knowned for!

As for Vossy .... i think he stated that he won't be coaching next year which i think is a good thing. I think he is very capable but i think he needs to do it on his terms and at a club of his choosing and not be forced to take a position just cos its available. The news i heard this evening is that he may wait till 2009 when Leigh Matthews contract is up with the Lions. I'm a Lions supporter and hold Leigh Matthews in very high respect as a coach, but if he did decide to give it away once his contract is up, i think Vossy would do a great job with a club that is very close to his heart. Even though Michael Voss doesn't have any coaching experience he has a lot of passion for the Lions which would be a great start to his coaching career.

Everything above is totally my opinion only .......and wouldn't be surprised to see 100% of it fall flat on its face .......but at least its better than discussing the current market ......rofl

 

[nomore4s]

Duckman I think Voss came out and said he's not going to coach this year, maybe next year.

a) Daniher to the Bombers, Sheedy to Melb, Ratten to coach Carlton, Harvey for Freo.

b) no see above

c) Yes see a

d) mmm maybe not sure what though. Maybe Terry Wallace to leave Richmond and Sheedy to take his spot? And Terry to Melb?
Can't see Williams leaving Power & Mark Thompson would have to be mad to leave Geelong now, especially for a club with a list like Ess:

I also think Connelly will miss out.

 

[chops_a_must]

Harvey has said his preferred option is to stay in WA. He looks like he'll stay in Freo if he's given the job.

I think the cat amongst the pigeon might be Peter German. Great record, tonnes of experience, all the right support staff behind him etc...

 

[Rafa]

pagan to the dockers is the best fit, provided he wants too...

they have the talent, they just need a rocket, and decent game plan.... i.e. straighten their play up..

pagan's paddock is the one... with the big pav up there, they could win the flag.
blighty did the same with the crows.

 

[Sprinter79]

If anyone has heard Voss commentate or get interviewed, you would have noticed that he's not the smartest guy in the world. He tries to use big words to make him sound smarter, but it backfires. Quite a lot of the time, I find him cringe worthy. Yeah, he's a champion player, and a great role model (except for the assault charges he's facing, which may be the main reason for not taking up a senior role next year), a great leader, but not a coach in my mind. He's a little bit too similar to Tim Watson, and we all know what happened there .... :

 

[nomore4s]

If anyone has heard Voss commentate or get interviewed, you would have noticed that he's not the smartest guy in the world. He tries to use big words to make him sound smarter, but it backfires. Quite a lot of the time, I find him cringe worthy. Yeah, he's a champion player, and a great role model (except for the assault charges he's facing, which may be the main reason for not taking up a senior role next year), a great leader, but not a coach in my mind. He's a little bit too similar to Tim Watson, and we all know what happened there .... :

I agree with you Sprinter, don't know what all the fuss about Voss coaching is for, just another media beat up imo. Listening to him commentate he doesn't show any signs of being a great coach. It would be a big risk for a club to take imo, no expirence even as an assistant coach, big difference taking a full time senior coaching role to coaching juniors at the AIS.

 

[Sean K]

a) Daniher to the Bombers, Sheedy to Melb, Ratten to coach Carlton, Harvey for Freo.

That's my tip too.Voss needs to be an assistant for a year or two or he'll turn into a Tim Watson. Gotta do an apprenticeship in this day and age, IMO.

I'm a Bomber, and if I had the choice I'd actually pick Thompson, Harvey, and O'Donnell, in that order, before Daniher. Too emotional.

 

[Duckman#72]

I'm a Bomber, and if I had the choice I'd actually pick Thompson, Harvey, and O'Donnell, in that order, before Daniher. Too emotional.

Yes agree Kennas. Not sure about Daniher.

I wouldn't discount Hardwick although he did leave the club in unhappy circumstances. Those fiesty backpocket players tend to make pretty decent coaches.

 

[pan]

wallace gone?

 

[Duckman#72]

wallace gone?

Richmond have got much bigger problems then Wallace. Their playing list and previous 30 years of club culture are their biggest issues.

You can't change the whole club culture with one person - but a good start would be to hold a press conference with the CEO of Football Operation, the President and the Club Captain all saying that Wallace will be coaching the club until the very last game of the season.

Considering it is one of the "powerhouse" Melbourne clubs, Richmond is a basketcase. The culture is terrible. All too often individuals are sacrificed at the expense of others failings which breeds a "each to his own" mentality. Unfortunately it has been a part of the club for so long that it actually attracts and encourages that type of supporter - which makes things worse.

There is "politics" in all football clubs but at least Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon try to maintain a level of togetherness and support.

Whether or not Wallace is the right coach for 2009 is irrelevant. He is the appointed coach. The season is all but shot. What good is putting in a caretaker coach at this point in time. Richmond's hierarchy needs to finally show some guts and leadership and tell the media to get back in their box. Who is running things down at Richmond - Gary March or The Herald Sun?

 

[nomore4s]

lol, Duckman I agree - sort of.

The culture at Richmond is terrible and has been for a long time. They have tried to change this in recent years imo - by appointing Wallace for 5 years and letting him try to build a team that would be competitive and trying to build some stability at board level.

The problem now is Wallace has failed miserably and now all the tigers fans who have been patient during the last 4-5 years are very disappointed by the fact they have to re-build again and the club is back to square 1. Compounding this problem is teams like Hawthorn & Carlton who were in the same position as Richmond 5 years ago are now very competitive teams.
Terry Wallace imo is the worst coach in the AFL at the moment, he has had 4 years to build and shape this Richmond team but the list is awful the drafting decisions have been terrible, the skill level is woeful, the tackling and attack on the ball is a joke - all this is the responsibility of the coach.

The thing with the other 3 clubs you have mentioned - they have been more successful in regards to playing finals on regular occasions, this helps to build a stronger club and culture. If I was a Richmond supporter I too would be upset - they have been rebuilding for over 20 years now and are still no closer to playing finals while every other team in the comp (except Freo) have progressed.

 

[Grinder]

a good start would be to hold a press conference with the CEO of Football Operation, the President and the Club Captain all saying that Wallace will be coaching the club until the very last game of the season.

think gary lyon beat you to the punch with that call.

The tiges have had a curse for many years. I don't think it's the coach or the players, we've tried just about every coach and have players that are highly rated.

It's the 'vibe', we just don't have it. Have'nt had it since the early 80s.

 

[Duckman#72]

Terry Wallace imo is the worst coach in the AFL at the moment, he has had 4 years to build and shape this Richmond team but the list is awful the drafting decisions have been terrible, the skill level is woeful, the tackling and attack on the ball is a joke - all this is the responsibility of the coach.

Hi Grinder and Nomores

Yes I realise that it is very disappointing for the supporters. They clearly must be very frustrated.

I think the thing lacking at Richmond over the decades has been accountability - at every level. Particularly accountability for failings. I don't agree with your comment - "all this is the responsibility of the coach". I am a firm believer that good teams provide coaches with far too much credit and poor teams provide coaches far too much criticism.

For years it was considered the norm that Richmond would finish 9th. The problem is that it was almost considered "a fair achievement" and "a good effort". The mantra "success is just around the corner" meant that Richmond continually tinkered with the edges with the belief that failure was a result a few and with a couple of extra pieces the jigsaw would be complete.

I agree that Wallace is not the best coach - however by sacking him you are providing a pressure relief valve on the player group, remaining coaching staff, drafting scouts, match committee and board members. In my opinion all these sections of the football department would benefit from having the spotlight firmly shone upon them for the remainder of the season. Each section has failed and failed miserably over the past 4 years - not just Wallace.

For self preservation - the easy option is to say "it was his fault - let's start again". It is much more difficult to say "Everyone at the club needs to take responsibility for the poor start. Everyone is on trial over the remaining 18weeks. If you want to be here in 2010 and beyond put your hand up."

Sure the supporters want blood - but I say make it the blood of a collective group at the year end. Not just an emotive ceremonial hanging part way through the year.

 

[nomore4s]

I agree that sacking Wallace now would achieve nothing. I also agree that the players need to step up and that some of the people behind the scenes are just as responsible for the current mess as Wallace is.

But I do believe that the list and support staff around Wallace are his responsibility - he has the final say in which players are drafted and how they are developed - all to suit his game plan. The good coaches build good support staff around them. At the end of the day Wallace has failed to deliver what he promised to the club and again that was his reponsibility, he can't blame anyone else, if the players aren't up to it that is his fault - he recruited and developed them and continues to pick them.

 

[Duckman#72]

But I do believe that the list and support staff around Wallace are his responsibility - he has the final say in which players are drafted and how they are developed - all to suit his game plan. The good coaches build good support staff around them. At the end of the day Wallace has failed to deliver what he promised to the club and again that was his reponsibility, he can't blame anyone else, if the players aren't up to it that is his fault - he recruited and developed them and continues to pick them.

Hi Nomores

It is about time Hawthorn supporters woke up to the fact their team is so good because of their assistant coaches (Essendon's Damien Hardwick)!!! LOL

We agree that Wallace has been a complete failure - I guess our only disagreement is the best exit strategy.

Duckman

 

[nomore4s]

lol, See Duckman good coaches have good support staff

We probably don't disagree too much on the exit strategy either as I think sacking Wallace midseason would be pointless and it may in fact put off a few coaches that Richmond could look at for next year.

 

[Duckman#72]

Having said that coaches get far too much credit - what the $%#$ was Knights thinking not playing Fletcher on Hale yesterday? 10 goals for North and 9 from marks inside 50. Don't forget - North isn't a "run and gun" team. They are more boring than Sydney.

And why is Knights not playing Houli? Why are Essendon players with so much speed no kicking it to Lloyd at every opprtunity - if he doesn't mark it nearly always falls to crumbers.

Why is Scott Lucas kicking out of bounds on the full from set shots with his experience? Why can't Jobe Watson find more targets. Why does Paddy "leave the game" for large stretches? Why does Lloyd need so many breaks on the interchange bench? Why can't Essendon get a decent second string ruckman? Where is the Adam McPhee of old?

The difference between Knights and Wallace is that Knights has just started.

 

[nomore4s]

Why can't Essendon get a decent second string ruckman?

lol, and you think the tigers supporters are bitter and twisted

At the moment Essendon need a first string ruckman - Hille has been at best average this year - and I picked him in my dreamteam

 

[Duckman#72]

lol, and you think the tigers supporters are bitter and twisted

At the moment Essendon need a first string ruckman - Hille has been at best average this year - and I picked him in my dreamteam

Must you kick me in the guts when I'm down!! But yes Hille has been well beaten this year.

I won't continue because I should be using the Essendon thread to bore people silly with my complaints.