Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
- Joined
- 2 January 2006
- Posts
- 13,782
- Reactions
- 10,544
There are good balanced commentators, Janet Albrechtsen and Nick Cater come to mind.
Bickering inside the camp ??
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment...ays-abc-health-specialist-20131104-2wx3n.html
I suggest you listen to Dr Norman Swan discussing the matter withThat show was controversial, I think there's a lot of truth in it and I posted a link here to a forum where a guy has been saying all this for years.
How much chance has this got in the face of a billion dollar industry that relies on the sale of these drugs ?
Non.
I suggest you listen to Dr Norman Swan discussing the matter with
Professor Peter Clifton
Professor of Pharmacy and Medical Sciences
NHMRC Principal Research Fellow
University of South Australia.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/healthreport/
Two doctors, especially one with the qualifications and experience of the latter, are just a bit more likely to be able to accurately assess the value or otherwise of the Catalyst program than most people here, or some forum where "a guy" has been saying this for years.
You might also like to think about who, other than the pharmaceutical industry, would come up with the billions that currently go into research.
Exactly what vested interest are you asserting either Dr Swan or Professor Clifton have?The ABC has cred too and no vested interests such as the doctors.
Exactly what vested interest are you asserting either Dr Swan or Professor Clifton have?
Have you actually listened to the program to which I supplied a link?
Certainly, and those reputations are going to be maintained by the opinions of their peers, alongside - in Professor Clifton's case in particular - a considerable body of research and clinical experienceThe good doctors have a lifetime reputation to protect.
I listened to a bit of it.
That show was controversial, I think there's a lot of truth in it...
How much chance has this got in the face of a billion dollar industry that relies on the sale of these drugs ?
Non.
I suggest you listen to Dr Norman Swan discussing the matter with
Professor Peter Clifton
Professor of Pharmacy and Medical Sciences
NHMRC Principal Research Fellow
University of South Australia.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/healthreport/
Two doctors, especially one with the qualifications and experience of the latter, are just a bit more likely to be able to accurately assess the value or otherwise of the Catalyst program than most people here, or some forum where "a guy" has been saying this for years.
You might also like to think about who, other than the pharmaceutical industry, would come up with the billions that currently go into research.
MEAT IS CANCER BRAH
I didn't want to bother with doing this, as I didn't think the latest scaremongering headlines would warrant much attention, but in the end it's stuff like this which is - not to put too fine a point on it - is actually dangerous. The retards vegans are going to be doling this "study" out for eons, along with the rest of their house-of-cards arguments.
I've read every damn post about this from all the actual experts who spend a lot of time actually researching the reasoning behind it all, and guess what... They all wrote pretty much exactly what I already did.
Gary Taubes: Science, Pseudoscience, Nutritional Epidemiology, and Meat
Chris Kresser: Red meat is still not bad for you, but shoddy research and clueless media are
Zoe Harcombe: Red meat & mortality & the usual bad science
J Stanton: Always Be Skeptical Of Nutrition Headlines: Or, What “Red Meat Consumption and Mortality” (Pan et.al.) Really Tells Us
Denise Minger: Will Eating Red Meat Kill You?
Andreas Eenfeldt: Do Unhealthy Meat Eaters Live Shorter Lives?
Robb Wolf: Red Meat: Part of a Healthy Diet?
Richard Nikoley: New Study: Driving & Watching Red Meat Can Kill You
etc etc
TL;DR? - The study is massively flawed, there are no causations - not even significant correlations, there's zero experiments and thus zero evidence, and the end resulting headlines were there just for attention, which sadly they got.
From the "guy" in another forum -
and this -
http://highsteaks.com/forum/health-nutrition-and-science/cholesterol-52.msg1128.html#msg1128
Doctors are experts in illness not health. I would be surprised if, in my 6 years of undergraduate study, and 4 years of postgraduate study, there was 20 hours TOTAL concerning nutrition beyond statements like 'eat less' and walk more. I don't ask my mechanic how to turn my Commodore into a Ferrari...I have to do that
Here's a quote from a doctor on the same forum -
That's a very valid and pertinent point too Mr Burns... that permeated my reasoning above.
Mr Dr, while making certain mention of vitamins, minerals, fats, proteins and carbs etc in the context of medical issues, also qualifies himself by saying the consumption and balance of the foods for these things are more for a nutritionists judgement. He can see the adverse effect of the excess and deficiency of some of these nutritional issues and help treat that, but does not profess to know all the intricate details of their qualities and effects as a nutritionist would.
Essentially, a medical doctor is more trained to deal with 'crash repairs'. Nutritionists are trained more to deal with keeping us on the road of good health, preventing the crash. Having said that some doctors (esp GP's) do have extra curricular qualifications such as in psychology and diet for example.
The main point of the Catalyst program seemed to me, that the drug companies and probably too many Dr's are promoting the use of statins as an alternative to a good diet and lifestyle, an easy fix (cynically or ignorantly keeping more business in-house) instead of recommending or even referring to a nutritionist as part of a patient treatment program in certain cases.
Call me cynical, again... but could it be that some of the doctors who are most sensitive about the program actually have a bit of a guilty conscience, knowing they have short changed those patients with a lazy quick fix instead of properly explaining and helping them, even referring them on to nutritional specialists to improve their diet if need be.
One thing is for sure though... the airing of the program was not political bias. Given it had the necessary medical warnings and more qualifications than most 'drug' products, and as previous posters also noted, raised legitimate questions about research and or data that is not publically available (although might be hidden in a big pharma file cabinet) that ought to be available for better informed use of these drugs.
Tony Abbott jeered, Speaker Bronwyn Bishop cheered as 'Hogwarts' Parliament gets underway.
Labor has protested against Mrs Bishop's intention to still attend party room meetings while in the Speaker's role.
Manager of Opposition Business Tony Burke said the elevation was "reminiscent of the Harry Potter novel" in which the villainous Dolores Umbridge is made headmistress of Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.
"When they all return to Hogwarts, Dumbledore is gone and Dolores Umbridge is now in charge of the school," he said.
But the new Speaker, who has been in Parliament for 26 years, insists the Opposition need not worry.
"I mean to be impartial," she told Parliament.
Prime Minister Tony Abbott, who nominated Mrs Bishop to the Speaker's chair, prompted the first jeer from Opposition benches by saying that "this chamber should always be a place of spirited debate, but it should never be a place where motives are impugned or characters assassinated".
ABC now using Labor's lines in their headlines.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-12/new-mps-sworn-in-as-debt-cap-row-flares/5085344
The headline,
Who was it that made the 'Hogwarts' connection ?
And who was it that jeered Tony Abbott ?
Not exactly unbiased judgements.
The ABC should be a little more impartial with their headlines.
Under Top Stories, the article is titled,And their " Have your say " comments page is not any better. I tried to put through 2 pro Government comments on the story above and they never made itThe mods only pass anti Abbott posts and let the Lefties have free hit. It's about time these one eyed taxpayer supported leeches were shown the door.
'Formidable' Bronwyn Bishop elected Speaker of 'Hogwarts' Parliament
And their " Have your say " comments page is not any better. I tried to put through 2 pro Government comments on the story above and they never made itThe mods only pass anti Abbott posts and let the Lefties have free hit. It's about time these one eyed taxpayer supported leeches were shown the door.
Under Top Stories, the article is titled,
Not exactly appropriate for a tax payer funded media organisation that is supposed to present unbiased information on the days events.
Something along the lines of "Bronwyn Bishop elected Speaker of the 44th Parliament" would have been much more appropriate and leave the biased stuff to the private sector media organisations.
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