Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

A Plan for New Share Investors/Traders

dennisll

apprentice tycoon
Joined
17 April 2006
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Hello All,

Got asked by a friend about how he should start in the sharemarket. I know that there are probably hundreds of books out there that answer this question but instead of pointing him to a book I thought about it and gave him my version (although a bit more fleshed out now that it is written of course). I thought of sharing it here for other new enthusiasts. To avoid having to write "investing/trading", I will use "investing" alone but everything should apply to trading as well.

1. Save
To enable a fruitful investing career, you must know how to spend less than you earn. Select a reasonable percentage of your income, say 10%, and as soon as your pay packet comes in move this amount to a high-earning savings account. For those who still live with mum and dad, try to go for 25% to 40%, as this is the most opportune time for you to save since you do not have a lot of fixed expenses yet (rent/mortgage, utility bills, etc). Once you are used to a life of spending less than you earn, you will eventually have enough capital saved up to start your investing career.

2. Keep Investment Funds for Investing
Got enough to start your investing? Great. Now don't go out and buy the latest hot tip yet. First you must make a commitment to yourself that the money you have allocated for Investment is for Investment alone. Open a new investment account with your financial organization to keep it seperate from your day-to-day account. You must promise yourself that this money is for investment only and not an emergency fund for an engagement ring or a holiday in Bali. By doing this, not only can you accurately track your progress, you can also ensure that you will get the full benefits of compounding.

3. Determine an End
When planning a long drive, you first determine where you are going before you plan out how to get there. Investing is no different. Decide where you want to be, and when you want to get there. Write it down and keep it in plain sight so you never forget. Don't just say "I want to be a millionaire". You must say something like, "I want to be a millionaire by March 1, 2015". Envision yourself achieving your goal, how your life would be like and what you might be doing at the time.

4. Learn, Learn, Learn
Before you set out on your long drive, you must know your car well. You must know what to check and when, what problems might arise and how to overcome them. You will probably also want to know about the weather forecasts, what you might encounter on the roads, and where the petrol stations are. With investing, you need to continue to educate yourself on what's out there, what the risks are and how to manage them, and how to use the various tools and methods. New tools and strategies are born constantly (ie CFD's) and the only way you can keep up with everything is to accept that you must be continuously learning. What are the disaster scenarios and what must you do to if they do happen? Read the classics by Graham and Fisher to start you off on a solid foundation. Read Market Wizards or Reminiscences of a Stock Operator if that is more to your liking. Try Rich Dad Poor Dad or even property books by Jan Somers. Learn to like reading the AFR (may take some time but you'll get used to it). Find a mentor you respect and who you wish to emulate and try to talk to him regularly.

5. Map out your Plan
Once you know where you are headed, you can start fleshing out how to get there. What do you need to do on a yearly/monthly/weekly/daily basis to get there? If you were driving from Sydney to Melbourne and you wanted to get there as soon as possible, you would probably think of driving non-stop for 10 hours. Or you could plan for 3 hour stretches with half hour breaks in between and still get there within a day. Perhaps you wanted to see the sites and plan to travel 5 hours a day over two days. The point is that since you already know where you are going, you can then figure out how to get there, whether you throw caution to the wind or go slowly but surely or perhaps, more realistically, somewhere in between.

6. Execute
Procrastination is often our biggest enemy. There will always be a reason not to start now. The market is nearing a top, or the market is falling and has not hit bottom. It could be interest rates, the economy, house prices, etc. You may have prepared yourself adequately for your investment journey but without taking that first step you will never get anywhere. Do not be afraid to lose money -- it is part of the journey. You have a plan, execute it! Plan dictates Action.

7. Review
To ensure you get to your desired destination, don't forget to take some time to review your progress. Have you been doing enough to be on schedule? Is the plan working? Have you been faithful to your plan, or have you been taking side trips from time to time? Do you need to catch up? If so, how? Does the plan need updating?

8. and lastly...Keep on Keeping On
There will be days when you will feel like nothing is going your way. You may feel like all your hard work is yielding very little rewards. Don't worry, most people go through periods of self-doubt as well. The key to overcoming this and to get to where you are going is to just keep on keeping on. I remember Warren Buffet once said that to get to a million simply start with a dollar and double 20 times. Say it takes you a year to double your money. In the first 5 years you will go from $1 to $32, not very flash and certainly to make only $31 in 5 years seems like a lot of effort for nothing. The next 5 years are slightly better but still nothing to scream about when you get to a thousand. Year 11 to 15 gets much more interesting, as you get to $32k in Year 15. But see how much it then pays off from Year 16 to 20:
Yr 16: $64K
Yr 17: $128K
Yr 18: $256K
Yr 19: $512K
Yr 20: $1,000,000
So really, if you give up within the first 10 years, how can you expect to get to the serious money?

There you have it. Probably lacking some things but that is certainly the gist of it. Add, subtract or modify, your thoughts are welcome :)

Happy Investing,

Dennis
 
Hi dennis

That's all very good advice.:)

The only thing I find a bit puzzling is the example you use at the end which essentially says that if you start with $1 and then get 100%pa compound return for 20 years you will have $1M after 20 years.......while obviously mathematically that is correct, in reality the stock market has a historical average of ~10%pa return.

While obviously people have made much more than $1M in much less than 20 years in business and/or investing I think your example could give a misleading impression, to newbies at least, that making huge amounts of money in the stock market is easy.

But :iagree: with the rest of what you say.

cheers

bullmarket :)
 
Dennis.

All very good.

However you see it time and again.

Stacks of theory and very few take it on to practice. Doubling a $ is easy enough doubling $100K not so easy.
Practical knowledge on how best to Utilise other peoples money,Risk,Compounding as you say,positive expectancy and most certainly the skills required to run your business of wealth creation,and lastly experience can be theorised till your 80---theory abounds when experience is lacking.

Practical implementation of a business plan is way more than a theory/s as to operation.
Books like those you mention fall way short in actual how and what of sound business practices. Plenty of you should/could do THIS very little of the practical what THIS is.

Many watched the last building boom pass by,and many will look back on this and the dot com boom and lament not having the guts/or accuman to take advantage of opportunity.

Most recognise opportunity
Few understand how to take advantage of it
Fewer actually DO IT

No offence just a statement of over 50 yrs of obsevation and practice of business..
 
Thanks for the replies, bullmarket and tech/a.

I should have clarified that the dollar doubled 20 times example is simply an example to show why we must keep on going rather than one that would estimate your returns in the market. Even at 10% compound return, which is certainly a realistic figure, 10% of a dollar pales in comparison to 10% of $500K. The point is to get to the level where your capital, whatever the compounding rate is, will produce significant returns and the only way to get there is to keep on keeping on.

Agree 100% with your comments, tech/a. Certainly practice is vastly different from theory. Hence step 6, Execute. No amount of theorizing will replace the lessons learnt from practice. The books I mentioned were, I thought, good starting points for a newcomer. Certainly one requires a certain level of information before he embarks on his journey and the books I chose as examples I regard as having enough information to get you on your way. I do believe that once a newcomer goes through the process of learning... and trying... and failing... and learning again... and trying... and having some success and so on; he will then find out what THIS is for him. I think WHAT we are doing means something different to each person and it is up to us to discover it. Personally, rather than WHAT , I believe the more important question is WHY but that's another story :)

Absolutely no offence taken :) Can't even see which part I might take offence in, even the slightest.

Cheers,

Dennis
 
tech/a said:
..........
No offence just a statement of over 50 yrs of obsevation and practice of business..

Agree 100% about the comments about putting theory into practice, damn difficult. Getting into a good habit/routine is the key.

btw Tech, I didn't realise you started observing business that young!
 
I didn't realise you started observing business that young!

More so the art of negotiation,something that years later my experience was then able to recognise the inate skills my own kids were using to manipulate me!!

They still do!! (well they think they do!!)
 
My problem is that i have got myself into a HEAP of debt. I want to get out of my debt and start investing..

I curently have a plan of attack but the bills etc are still getting ahead of me..

Other than selling my body how can i start getting on top of things and start investing?
 
ashwalk said:
My problem is that i have got myself into a HEAP of debt. I want to get out of my debt and start investing..

I curently have a plan of attack but the bills etc are still getting ahead of me..

Other than selling my body how can i start getting on top of things and start investing?

Ashwalk,

You may already have sought advice about managing the debt.

If not, you can access excellent free financial/debt/budgeting advice through Lifeline's Financial Counselling Service. Often the consultants who volunteer with this service (usually retired bank managers etc) can negotiate more favourable repayment terms with your creditors than you are able to do yourself. You may find it worth a try.

Good luck.

Julia
 
Very informative post. When I was working and studying I had a plan written down on paper and I was really surprised when you plan just how much better of you are. I had saved alot and had something to show for it. Now iv been out of uni for a few months and working iv spent my money and have nothing its easy to think youll save but it never happens.

Iv done up another plan and im surprised just by saving 50-60% of my income how much money I can have in say 12 months time. Its so easy to spend $100-200 here and there and use up your entire pay check.

Great post its always great to revist the fundamentals which get you there
 
Say it takes you a year to double your money. In the first 5 years you will go from $1 to $32, not very flash and certainly to make only $31 in 5 years seems like a lot of effort for nothing.

Complete and utter bollocks. :swear:

Anyone that can double their money on the stockmarket in 1 year, had an amazingly good year, mostly from luck, and they should not expect that to happen again.

A 10% return after tax and brokerage fees is a very good return. We'll see how many manage that this year!

To turn $1 into 1 million$ in a lifetime is basically an impossibility. If it wasn't we'd all be bilionaires already. 1 or 2 of us are, the other 99.99% aren't.

Turning $100,000 into $1 Million would realistically take over 20 years minimum, and few investors achieve that.

Also someone earning $50K a year and planning to be a millionaire after 10 years is dreaming. It doesn't matter if you plan for it or not, you wont get there unless you earn more, live very frugally and save and invest amazingly well being extremely patient, reducing taxes and brokerage fees.

Some of what you have said has merit Dennis, most of it is not correct at all.

I remember Warren Buffet once said that to get to a million simply start with a dollar and double 20 times

I doubt he ever actually said that. Some idiot pedlling Option trading advice over infomercials did though. Buffet would have said the first rule of investing is "Don't lose" - trying to double your money quickly is not something Buffet would ever contemplate.

When Richard Branson, owner of Virgin Atlantic Airways,
was asked how to become a millionaire, he had a quick answer: "There's
really nothing to it. Start as a billionaire and then buy an airline."

Sorry to be so rude Dennis, but I'm just stating my mind, and I do disagree with you sorry.
 
Realist said:
Complete and utter bollocks. :swear:

Anyone that can double their money on the stockmarket in 1 year, had an amazingly good year, mostly from luck, and they should not expect that to happen again.

A 10% return after tax and brokerage fees is a very good return. We'll see how many manage that this year!

To turn $1 into 1 million$ in a lifetime is basically an impossibility. If it wasn't we'd all be bilionaires already. 1 or 2 of us are, the other 99.99% aren't.

Turning $100,000 into $1 Million would realistically take over 20 years minimum, and few investors achieve that.

Also someone earning $50K a year and planning to be a millionaire after 10 years is dreaming. It doesn't matter if you plan for it or not, you wont get there unless you earn more, live very frugally and save and invest amazingly well being extremely patient, reducing taxes and brokerage fees.

Some of what you have said has merit Dennis, most of it is not correct at all.



I doubt he ever actually said that. Some idiot pedlling Option trading advice over infomercials did though. Buffet would have said the first rule of investing is "Don't lose" - trying to double your money quickly is not something Buffet would ever contemplate.

When Richard Branson, owner of Virgin Atlantic Airways,
was asked how to become a millionaire, he had a quick answer: "There's
really nothing to it. Start as a billionaire and then buy an airline."

Sorry to be so rude Dennis, but I'm just stating my mind, and I do disagree with you sorry.


It all comes down to quality of life. If one wants to be a tight ass for 20 years on a meagre salary, then sure it's possible. And actually in todays society you can probably have more fun and a better quality of life by not eating out, drinking smoking driving big cars etc.

Personally, the quality of food in our society lacks substance. Just my opinion. That's why I'm trying to become a better cook.!!
 
It's just an example of the effect of compounding interest, I mean anyone who would start investing with one dollar is a moron, u can't even buy a scratchy ticket with that and Id say that would be just about the best investment u could make with that little money. Even with $1000 in one stock u'd need 4% just to cover the costs of purchase and sale
 
It's just an example of the effect of compounding interest, I mean anyone who would start investing with one dollar is a moron, u can't even buy a scratchy ticket with that and Id say that would be just about the best investment u could make with that little money.

Agreed, if you are starting out with $1, a lottery ticket is about your only option. If you can get one that cheap, maybe go in with 5 friends ;)
 
Realist said:
Complete and utter bollocks. :swear:

Anyone that can double their money on the stockmarket in 1 year, had an amazingly good year, mostly from luck, and they should not expect that to happen again.

A 10% return after tax and brokerage fees is a very good return. We'll see how many manage that this year!

To turn $1 into 1 million$ in a lifetime is basically an impossibility. If it wasn't we'd all be bilionaires already. 1 or 2 of us are, the other 99.99% aren't.

Turning $100,000 into $1 Million would realistically take over 20 years minimum, and few investors achieve that.

Also someone earning $50K a year and planning to be a millionaire after 10 years is dreaming. It doesn't matter if you plan for it or not, you wont get there unless you earn more, live very frugally and save and invest amazingly well being extremely patient, reducing taxes and brokerage fees.

Some of what you have said has merit Dennis, most of it is not correct at all.


Realist as much as i understand where your coming from let me put this to you.

Statistics show that only 1% of Aussie's retire wealthy. So that means 99% of the population in frank terms have no idea when it comes to wealth.

I know your stating your point of view which is fine but please watch what you say as people can take your advice, and unless your in that 1% you are in no position to give such advice (like me also!) :D

Dennis i tell you what, find someone that is in your position and has done what your seeking and then learn from them. The people that say such things cannot be done are usually the ones that are in the 99% category. No offence peoples but unless you think differently you will end up as the 99% sheep. This is not to say doubling your money is achievable but there are people that have turned small amounts of capital into monstrous bank accounts over the years (using various methods).

I know people want to be realistic but im sorry if so many people have become millionaires over the years than i simply say to myself wtf not!?

Oh hang on here it is:

"They were all lucky"

or

"They were born wealthy"

or

"You have to have a special gift"



If you havent read the book by Warren Bennis (Geeks and Geezers) than go out and buy it. That will explain the difference between young leaders of today and older leaders (mostly millionaires).

Basically it says the young leaders of today are earning wealth 10 times faster (due to the amount of information available).

Times change people so unless you change with it, you will always believe that 5-10% p/a is a fantastic return and be like 99% of sheep.
 
Friends,

Please do not think that I was implying that you can double your money in a year trading stocks. The point I was trying to make is that to gain the benefits of compounding you have to be in for the long haul, as it takes time before the serious compounding actually starts. The point is demonstrated simply by the "double your dollar 20 times to make a million" example. Using a year as the time for the money to double makes the example even more simple and easy to understand.

In specific situations, doubling your money may take longer or shorter. The method may be the stock market, real estate, etc. In any case, the fact remains that if you quit early in the game, you cannot get to the point where you can make serious money.

Cheers,

Dennis
 
Oh and by the way Realist, Warren Buffet did use that example. It was both to demonstrate the power of compounding as well as the effect of taxes on your gains. Basically he said that if you bought a share for one dollar and it doubled 20 times, you would be a millionaire but if you sold every time it doubled, you would be nowhere near the million mark.

Cheers,

Dennis
 
I'm not happy with 10% a month.

:cool:

10% a month return after tax and brokerage on your total investments is just a plain ludicrous exepectation. Have you seen a psychiatrist?


Oh and by the way Realist, Warren Buffet did use that example.

link??

He certianly would never in his wildest dreams expect a 100% return in a year!

I know his yearly returns.

Buffet & Partnership Ltd returns per annum...

1957 10.4%
1958 40.9%
1959 25.9%
1960 22.8%
1961 45.9%
1962 13.9%

Now anyone who thinks they are a better investor than the second richest man in the world, or anyone that can get better returns than his yearly average of 29.5% is a dreamer.

Statistics show that only 1% of Aussie's retire wealthy. So that means 99% of the population in frank terms have no idea when it comes to wealth.

I know your stating your point of view which is fine but please watch what you say as people can take your advice, and unless your in that 1% you are in no position to give such advice (like me also!)

Well I aint retired, so I aint in that 1%. Whatever relevance that has to anything I don't know.

If you seriously think taking advice from a wealthy old person is worth more than taking advice from anyone else you are sadly mistaken.

Infact, you advising people to listen to wealthy retired people is possibly the worst piece of advise I've seen on this board.

What piece of information did I give exactly that you do not agree with? :confused:
 
Realist said:
:cool:

10% a month return after tax and brokerage on your total investments is just a plain ludicrous exepectation. Have you seen a psychiatrist?

I didn't say I expect that, but I'm not happy with less :p

Also, that's pre-tax, but including brokerage.

BTW, I think Cynic is a more appropriate username for you.
 
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