9/11 and The War on Terror - Al Qaeda Wins

[wallyt99]

When Al Quaeda took out the World Trade Centre.... It wasn't a plan to Kill thousands of Infidels....that was a bonus.

What it was was a statement of their ultimate goal, which was to destroy the fundamental that the western world is built upon. The economy.

George Bush went in hook line and sinker, creating the $4 trillion war on terror... The focus on terror....lost focus on domestic issues and economy....and now we are all screwed.


Thanks George....so much that our forefathers worked for, you have allowed to be taken away.

 

[2020hindsight]

1. When Al Quaeda took out the World Trade Centre.... It wasn't a plan to Kill thousands of Infidels....that was a bonus.

2. What it was was a statement of their ultimate goal, which was to destroy the fundamental that the western world is built upon. The economy.

3. George Bush went in hook line and sinker, creating the $4 trillion war on terror...
and now we are all screwed.

4. Thanks George....so much that our forefathers worked for, you have allowed to be taken away.

Pretty much agree wal
1 & 2. except that I'd have said the destruction of the economy was the bonus on this occasion (PS you could well be right of course )

3 and 4. sure as hell agree that Bush played right in AQ's hands - manchurian candidate etc

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=335346&highlight=manchurian#post335346

http://hnn.us/articles/32618.html by Mr. Buzzanco, Professor of History :-

If enemies of the United States had gotten together a few years ago to devise a plan to damage America and undermine its global position–diminish its power and credibility, drag it into a stubborn war, harm its relations with allies, create international financial disarray, run up huge deficits, create political openings for the Europeans and China to exploit and become equals in global economic matters, motivate terrorists, bring the U.S. image in the Middle East to its nadir, restrict civil liberties at home, and so forth–they would have been hard-pressed to create a program that would be more effective than the Bush administration’s policies on these issues of war, terrorism, and global economics have.

Given these conditions, there is now great reason for all Americans, including, if not especially, Republicans and conservatives, to demand an end to these policies in Iraq and at home that are making life more dangerous and costly. Some years ago, during the Vietnam War, Richard Nixon said that “Vietnam cannot defeat or humiliate the United States. Only Americans can do that.” It seems like George Bush has accomplished precisely that all these years later.

 

[johenmo]

The 3 targets:
- world Trade Centre = seat of financial world (well, one of)
- pentagon = seat of military world
- white house = seat of US government world

Not a bad potential trifecta if you want to shake a country.

 

[Glen48]

Good thing they didn't attack Australia and take out Centerlink imagine the mess, single mother not getting their money, no dole for the permanently unemployed, people forced to work and do an honest days work....thank God we have G W..

 

[Green08]

wallyt99

Have you gone through this thread

The PRE-PLANNED Financial/Economic 911 of 2008 ( 1 2)
Kimosabi 21st-October-2008 02:52 AM

Might find some interesting things.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

wallyt99

Have you gone through this thread

The PRE-PLANNED Financial/Economic 911 of 2008 ( 1 2)
Kimosabi 21st-October-2008 02:52 AM

Might find some interesting things.

Green,

The video in that link of yours has been taken off youtube. Do you know where one oculd find it?

 

[mayk]

Green,

The video in that link of yours has been taken off youtube. Do you know where one oculd find it?

Search here: Most of the documentaries

http://video.google.com/videorankings?type=viewed&cr=usa&hl=en


A nice place to get humor and other things. I also like their news section as well. Google has certainely maintained its edge.

 

[Prospector]

Just the other night we were discussing who had done more damage to the US - George Bush or Osama Bin Laden.

George won hands down in terms of loss of life in a war that was directed against the wrong person, $$$ lost in fighting that war, and now their financial institutions have taken out world markets as a result of poor governance. What a legacy.

 

[Sean K]

Just the other night we were discussing who had done more damage to the US - George Bush or Osama Bin Laden.

George won hands down in terms of loss of life in a war that was directed against the wrong person, $$$ lost in fighting that war, and now their financial institutions have taken out world markets as a result of poor governance. What a legacy.

P, what was the alternate approach after 9/11?

IMO, Iraq was pre-emptive, but Afghanistan was justified.

OSB may have made the US do what they did, so who was the instigator?

Is an oil refinery in Saudi (etc) justification for 'terrorism'?

IMO, Al Qaeda will not win because the moral cause of the West and it's values are more relevant to the modern word, than the fanatical Islamists stuck in the 6th c. Unfortunately, the poverty of the developing world and failure of the current financial system is not assisting...

This is not a US Vietnam or a Russian Afghanistan, this has some international support, and AQ will be defeated.

It will be foiled by a lack of support from us.

 

[mayk]

Just the other night we were discussing who had done more damage to the US - George Bush or Osama Bin Laden.

...................

 

[2020hindsight]

As I understand it, Bin Laden had seen Russia defeated in Afghanistan. In fact he had assisted - with his own money (and not trained by CIA as the rumour goes) -

And 9/11 was his way to entice the infidels (USA at that stage) into a war on Moslem soil - where he figured he would win - in the long term if not in the short .

But sure, everything since then, reactions of the Bush administration have played into his hands, - ESPECIALLY IRAQ! sheesh - and the expenditure on the war(s) must not be a good thing for the US economy. (nor their global reputation).

PS I notice a few bumper sticker websites quite active at the moment
This one specialising in Bush stickers :-
http://www.bushbumperstickers.com/index.html

 

[Green08]

Just the other night we were discussing who had done more damage to the US - George Bush or Osama Bin Laden.

Hi Prospector,

I believe George Bush Junior has caused the fine mess were in.
My following comments are not aimed at you it is my general observation.

Think of it this way. He seriously believes in God and creationalism not rationalism. Thus in his head I think he really believes he is GOD or a pretty dangerous believer.

Thus this is God’s Divine Plan. (not that I agree as I’m an atheist) so really all these devote religious people of any denomination who believe in God and his Divine Plan. Hey this is it. So my question is why are they against it, why are they so upset bout losing money, lives, global economics etc - aren't they all then Hypocrites to question the **** where in.

Hopefully the good thing is people wake up and if they don't want to be a pathetic hypocrites will find that God is NOT REAL. This is reality so accept it or move to reality and check out Atheism.

 

[mayk]

The notion that AQ is finished can never be ascertained. Will AQ give up and in an email to its supporters admit defeat?

I do not understand, how journalists could get to Osama but not CIA/NSA, while he is in their top 10 list since 90's.

A new thinking and tactic is required. But I guess just as the killing of Saddam has not ended the war in Iraq, nor will a Osama kill fetch victory against this loosely con-notated "War on Terror".

 

[Green08]

I do not understand, how journalists could get to Osama but not CIA/NSA, while he is in their top 10 list since 90's.

A new thinking and tactic is required. But I guess just as the killing of Saddam has not ended the war in Iraq, nor will a Osama kill fetch victory against this loosely con-notated "War on Terror"

Even if they do find Osama and kill him, the guy's had 7 years to recruit, organise, educate and maneuver his much larger following of fundamentalist followers to action. They are far more dangerous then ever before. Of course he has replacements. He is like any other military leader - he's prepared. They don't care if they die.

Now why has this war gone completely balls up? GW wanted the oil - gotta keep those trucks (sorry enormous cars) going, gotta keep the people happy so he gets in again.

Like I said in the other thread when people are at their most vulnerable, shock, anger, hate, grief they become so susceptible to manipulation and redirection. They forget reason and questions.

 

[mayk]

Even if they do find Osama and kill him, the guy's had 7 years to recruit, organise, educate and maneuver his much larger following of fundamentalist followers to action. They are far more dangerous then ever before. Of course he has replacements. He is like any other military leader - he's prepared. They don't care if they die.

If he is so hidden (or dead) then presumably he does not have the ability to recruit and organise (I hate American dictionary which puts a 'z' in this word), it is just paranoia, a myth that in a far away land he is recruiting and training young guys.

If you don't believe me , check the interview of Donald Rumsfeld, before attacking Afghanistan's Tora bora, where he shows how in an underground mountain they have palaces and latest weaponry. (please watch "Baby it is cold outside" on youtube it has that clip). Now when you watch it, it seems hilarious, and sadly ridiculous.

The Americans have a tendecy to exagerate their enemy, then after finding out that it was nothing, they then reduce the threat enormously, which lead to the ultimate rise of the enemy. E.g. See Russia (from 1945-1988, big RED evil russia), turns out a house of cards. Then they ridiculed them and after a while (20 years), they resurged again. Same with Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. The problem is the arrogance and incomplete intelligence.

The major problem for America is that it does not have any imperial experience. They don't connect with the people on the ground. They tend to do everything in American fashion, which is to use excessive force, use air power but do not engage using ground forces, unless forced to do that like in Iraq. To top it all off, they just form bases and surround them with big walls (like Baghdad in Iraq or Kabul in Afghanistan). This kind of behaviour frustrates, degrades and irritates local population.

 

[2020hindsight]

... The problem is the arrogance and incomplete intelligence.

or in GW Bush's case, complete stupidity.

 

[Prospector]

The aftermath of 9/11 Kennas? Not blitz a country that had a leader diametrically opposed to Al Qaeda as a start! Just so they could be seen to be doing something. Weapons of mass destruction; remember that 'red line' that once passed would mean Armageddon? Never happened. Removing the (admittedly sadistic) leader of Iraq created the vacuum for terrorists to take over.

Afghanistan and Irag shouldn't be compared. Different story.

The major problem for America is that it does not have any imperial experience. They don't connect with the people on the ground. They tend to do everything in American fashion, which is to use excessive force, use air power but do not engage using ground forces, unless forced to do that like in Iraq. To top it all off, they just form bases and surround them with big walls (like Baghdad in Iraq or Kabul in Afghanistan). This kind of behaviour frustrates, degrades and irritates local population.

Yep, and they could never understand why the Iraqis didnt welcome them with open arms. Things are so black and white to the Americans - they judge people as to whether they are enemies or allies - no greys with them. And everything must be done their way. Well, I think we have witnessed the rise and fall of the American empire - in the space of maybe 80 years.

I think Al Qaeda would be laughing all the way to Allah with the crisis facing all non muslim countries.

 

[sinner]

Funny how someone above claimed the CIA had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda, when even the US FBI Special Agent Jack Cloonan dubbed Ali Mohamed as bin Ladens "first trainer". Who is Ali Mohamed you ask? Oh nobody special really, only the double agent who worked for the CIA and Egyptian Military Intelligence before they cottoned on that he was a double agent!

But ignore that aside for a moment, I learnt of it watching a doco on Osama in 2002 (when everyone and their dog was making Osama docos), apparently he was very passionate about the 4th Generation Warfare paradigm...which if you are familiar with as a concept....well, kind of looks like exactly what has happened to the US in the last 7 years?

 

[mayk]

If you don't believe me , check the interview of Donald Rumsfeld, before attacking Afghanistan's Tora bora, where he shows how in an underground mountain they have palaces and latest weaponry. (please watch "Baby it is cold outside" on youtube it has that clip). Now when you watch it, it seems hilarious, and sadly ridiculous.

Here is the link to this BBC documentary

Part 1- The Power of Nightmares (Baby it's cold outside)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1320822957676559056&ei=YQkESfmqNITMwgOoxMnHDw&hl=en

Part 2- The Phantom victory
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...auoN4zKwgPj58i_Dw&q=power+of+nightmares&hl=en

Part 3- Shadows in the Caves.
http://video.google.com/videosearch...en&emb=0&q=power of nightmares&src=2&start=10

 

[2020hindsight]

Funny how someone above claimed the CIA had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda, when even the US FBI Special Agent Jack Cloonan dubbed Ali Mohamed as bin Ladens "first trainer". ..

well sinner, this wiki website would disagree with you - at least as far as direct training of OBL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_activity_of_Osama_bin_Laden

Alleged CIA involvement

Whether Osama bin Laden and his group are "blowback" from CIA's Operation Cyclone to help the Afghan mujahideen is a matter of some debate.

Robin Cook, former leader of the British House of Commons and Foreign Secretary from 1997-2001, has written that bin Laden was, "a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies" and that the mujahideen that formed Al-Qaida were "originally ... recruited and trained with help from the CIA".[13]

However, CNN journalist Peter Bergen, known for conducting the first television interview with Osama bin Laden in 1997, calls the idea "that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden ... a folk myth. There's no evidence of this. ... Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently. ... The real story here is the CIA didn't really have a clue about who this guy was until 1996 when they set up a unit to really start tracking him."[14]

More detail here ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden

Along with native Afghan mujahideen (fighters of jihad or "holy warriors") were Muslim volunteers from other countries, popularly known as "Afghan Arabs". The most famous of the Afghan Arabs was Osama bin Laden, known at the time as a wealthy and pious Saudi who provided his own money and helped raise millions from other wealthy Gulf Arabs.

Overall, the U.S. government looked favorably on the Arab recruitment drives. ...

As the war neared its end, bin Laden organized the al-Qaeda organization to carry on armed jihad in other venues, primarily against the United States, the country that had helped fund the mujahideen against the Soviets.

A number of commentators have described Al-Qaeda attacks as "blowback" or an unintended consequence of American aid to the mujahideen. In response, the American government, American and Pakistani intelligence officials involved in the operation, and at least one journalist (Peter Bergen) have denied this theory. They maintain the aid was given out by the Pakistan government, that it went to Afghan not foreign mujahideen, and that there was no contact between the Afghan Arabs (foreign mujahideen) and the CIA or other American officials, let alone arming, training, coaching, indoctrination, etc.

"al-Qaeda" means "the database" incidentally - i.e. the names of fighters remaining after the Russina Afghan war. .