2010 Federal Election

Julia · 2 August 2010

It seems a bit odd that Ms Gillard has specified that if a second debate is held it's to be confined to talking about the economy.
Have they got some evidence of Tony Abbott wasting money when he was in the Health p/f? If she's planning to focus on how the government saved Australia from sure ruin during the GFC by the wasteful stimulus, can't Mr Abbott point to the now apparent over-stimulation of the economy as evidenced by several interest rate rises, not to mention all the rorting and waste of taxpayer dollars?

There's no mention of this in the article above, but on "PM" this evening, the journalist suggested the date offered by the PM is the date programmed for the Coalition's campaign 'launch'. It's a little difficult to imagine that that would be a coincidence.

Ms Gillard does seem to be realising that she is - as she says - in "the fight of her life". If she loses, after the spectacular ousting of Kevin, she will herself be deposed in very short order.

drsmith · 2 August 2010

Tony Abbott has turned her down on the basis that he won't change his campaign schedule just because the PM's campaign is in trouble.

Julia · 2 August 2010

Do you think he did the right thing? Won't he now be subject to repeated accusations that he was 'too afraid' to debate her a second time?

Calliope · 2 August 2010

drsmith said:
If it's so good now, why not as a stimulus measure measure during the GFC ?

She's also turned turtle on another debate with Tony Abbott.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/02/2971373.htm

Desperate stuff.

She wants to nominate the terms of the debate. Abbott should debate her on his own terms. It should be about why Labor is directing Senate preferences to the Greens.

The editorial in the Australian tells how destructive to the economy the Green's control the Senate would be. It doesn't matter who wins in the Reps, if the Greens control the Senate the country is rooted.

Party leader Bob Brown called for gay marriage and euthanasia for everybody interested. He promised to protect fish by banning offshore oil and gas exploration and he pork-barrelled with suggestions for a very fast train system. "We are putting together a fantastic and very realistic transport system for this whole nation while the big parties are transporting coal," he said. That will be the coal exports that help keep the economy afloat and produce the income Senator Brown needs to fund his schemes. It was typical of the Greens, who are utterly uninterested in the inevitable compromises of practical politics

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-on-centre-stage/story-e6frg71x-1225899728106

drsmith · 2 August 2010

Julia said:
Do you think he did the right thing? Won't he now be subject to repeated accusations that he was 'too afraid' to debate her a second time?

Yes. He can exploit the ALP's desperation for better terms.

It would be good to see some economic discussion of the Green's policies. A corporate tax of 33% combined with a RRT of 50% results in a total tax take from mining of 66.5%. Perhaps they prefer it stay in the ground.

It's Snake Pliskin · 3 August 2010

Mofra said:
Have to disagree. Bolt tends to oversimply situations to adjust to the tabloid editorialism that earns him a crust. His "interesting" use of logic and crusade for the far, far, far right tend to be tend to override any sense of proper discussion when Bolt is concerned.

Have to disagree. Over simplification would be much like framing which may come from politicians. Carbon footprint is one where people quickly and easily attach to the simple message and act in a fascist like manner when they try to talk over the opposition to it. We hear about skeptics in a negative light. Skepticism is healthy and genuine.

Mofra you seem skeptical which is ok.

But in any discussion or argument the issue is the issue, not the negatives of the person introducing the argument, or informing by the media just because (1) a decoy is needed, and (2) ideology gets in the way.

So what about the Fabians is beneficial for Australia? Anyone?

Calliope · 3 August 2010

Forget about the REAL Julia . The FAKE Julia is the REAL Julia. In an interview on 7 last night she is still giving non-answers.

She cannot make any changes or display any honesty without going cap in hand to the faceless men in the party machine to whom she owes her job. She is their puppet.

moXJO · 3 August 2010

BUSINESSES and Governments need to do more to improve employees' work-life balance as it continues to worsen and impact on families, unions say.
The ACTU said Australians are under too much pressure at work and families are suffering as a result.

"It's getting harder, not easier for working people and this is having a negative effect on children ... and the whole community," ACTU president Ged Kearney said.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/news/work-life-balance-worsening-union/story-e6frg90f-1225900382729
Wow that’s not what the union ads on TV tell you. So under labor things are worse
I'm still waiting for something beneficial to small business from either side of politics to swing my vote their way. Hopes that Gillard might have been different have been dashed.

Mofra · 3 August 2010

It's Snake Pliskin said:
Have to disagree. Over simplification would be much like framing which may come from politicians. Carbon footprint is one where people quickly and easily attach to the simple message and act in a fascist like manner when they try to talk over the opposition to it. We hear about skeptics in a negative light. Skepticism is healthy and genuine.

Mofra you seem skeptical which is ok.

But in any discussion or argument the issue is the issue, not the negatives of the person introducing the argument, or informing by the media just because (1) a decoy is needed, and (2) ideology gets in the way.

So what about the Fabians is beneficial for Australia? Anyone?

Snake, I have to admit I'm one of a larger group that has to wear the label of "denier" because I'm not convinced of the science of climate change, but that is beside the point.

Bolt's core audience are the Herald-Sun public - the tabloid that pitches to it's readers at a year 8 level (The Age, it's major rival, pitches at a year 11 level). It is inevitable that some dumbing down will occur, however it appears the Bush-esque mentality of "black or white, you're with us or against us" is Bolt's modus operandi. Obviously Bolt is more editorialist as opposed to journalist so any sense of balance is a not a pre-requisite for his articles, however I belive that purs him in a more extreme category than just the "framing" of politicians you're highlighted above.

FWIW you wont want to start me on the "misguided priciples" of the Fabians - halfway through Greenspan's autobiography and his thoughts on their philosophy are very hard to argue against

noco · 3 August 2010

Julia said:
It seems a bit odd that Ms Gillard has specified that if a second debate is held it's to be confined to talking about the economy.
Have they got some evidence of Tony Abbott wasting money when he was in the Health p/f? If she's planning to focus on how the government saved Australia from sure ruin during the GFC by the wasteful stimulus, can't Mr Abbott point to the now apparent over-stimulation of the economy as evidenced by several interest rate rises, not to mention all the rorting and waste of taxpayer dollars?

There's no mention of this in the article above, but on "PM" this evening, the journalist suggested the date offered by the PM is the date programmed for the Coalition's campaign 'launch'. It's a little difficult to imagine that that would be a coincidence.

Ms Gillard does seem to be realising that she is - as she says - in "the fight of her life". If she loses, after the spectacular ousting of Kevin, she will herself be deposed in very short order.

Julia, Tony Abbott initially requested three debates with Julia Gillard and when she thought she was on top, she refused. Now that she is running scared of losing, she has back flipped in her usual manner and wants a second debate on the economy.
I beleive a debate on the economy between Swan and Hockey has been organised before the election. Perhaps she does not have faith in Swan fearing he may goof.
This new tack of seeing the real Gillard is just another ploy to gain attention away from the Labor Party split with all the adverse leaks of last week.
That's our unelected Prime Minister. What will be her next circus act?

Logique · 3 August 2010

Julia said:
....the [second debate] date offered by the PM is the date programmed for the Coalition's campaign 'launch'. It's a little difficult to imagine that that would be a coincidence.
Ms Gillard does seem to be realising that she is - as she says - in "the fight of her life". If she loses, after the spectacular ousting of Kevin, she will herself be deposed in very short order.

I think Julia Gillard is keeping the seat warm for Bill Shorten, whatever happens.

With the second debate, I think Peter Dutton got it right last night on Q&A, it's quite clearly a clever stunt from the ALP back room smarties. Offer a date the Libs couldn't possibly accept, and then accuse them of running scared.

IMHO not a big issue in the election, the Libs had earlier asked for three debates and were turned down by now flip-flopping Labor.

Saw Bob Brown on tv at the Greens campaign launch. In a moment of supreme irony, he said it's frightening that Tony Abbott might be elected! This from a party that wants to shut down the energy sector that currently provides 98% of national baseload power! I notice Calliope provided an interesting link above from the Australian.

Q&A was fun last night. For once Libs & NP weren't outnumbered, Craig Emerton was not happy, and interrupted everyone manically.

There was a Greens party rep on the panel, but she wasn't going to be overly supportive of Emerton - it might have drawn too much attention to the cosy back room preferences swap between their parties - which Bob Brown disowns - for public consumption anyway = irrational, hypocritical, write your own ticket.

Who is the real Julia Gillard? I say who is really leading the Greens party?

Calliope · 3 August 2010

moXJO said:
I'm still waiting for something beneficial to small business from either side of politics to swing my vote their way. Hopes that Gillard might have been different have been dashed.

Did you really expect that Gillard would be a supporter of small business? You only had to listen to all the venom she sprayed about Work Choices and the Libs easing of the Unfair Dismissal Laws for small businesses.

drsmith · 3 August 2010

Logique said:
Q&A was fun last night. For once Libs & NP weren't outnumbered, Craig Emerton was not happy, and interrupted everyone manically.

Peter Dutton was head and shoulders above the other 3 politicians there. Craig Emerton for the most part realised this and spent most of his efforts trying to get a rise out of Barnaby.

One dissapointing aspect about last night's show was that neither of the Coalition members did not get a chance to respond to internet sensorship when that issue was raised.

moXJO · 3 August 2010

Calliope said:
Did you really expect that Gillard would be a supporter of small business? You only had to listen to all the venom she sprayed about Work Choices and the Libs easing of the Unfair Dismissal Laws for small businesses.

You would be surprised sometimes.
Both sides are rather anemic this election regarding small business.
One of many things that irks me when labor is in government, everyone expects more for doing nothing.

Logique · 3 August 2010

Private health insurance rebate:

it is Greens policy to abolish this, and push everyone into the already overcrowded public system. Labor has the stated intention to means test the rebate at the higher income earner level, but I think we all know they want to go further in reducing the rebate.

As such great proponents of public health - can they indicate which public hospital Mr Rudd attended for his gall bladder operation, and how long he spent on the waiting list, as a public patient?

Calliope · 3 August 2010

I watched a re-run of Q&A this morning. The audience laughed when Craig Emerson spoke so fondly of Julia saying that he had known her since 1998.

This was a canny audience. They knew that this was when Emerson deserted his wife and three kids and shacked up with the fair Julia in Canberra. He was her live-in lover.

Julia · 3 August 2010

Logique said:
Private health insurance rebate:

it is Greens policy to abolish this, and push everyone into the already overcrowded public system. Labor has the stated intention to means test the rebate at the higher income earner level, but I think we all know they want to go further in reducing the rebate.

As such great proponents of public health - can they indicate which public hospital Mr Rudd attended for his gall bladder operation, and how long he spent on the waiting list, as a public patient?

Yes, this is just one of the scary policies of the Greens, and one with which Labor will have sympathy. However, to abolish the rebate would be hugely unpopular with a large section of the electorate so I'd be very surprised if it happened. Undoubtedly they'd institute a fairly tough means test, though.

I was expressing fear about the Greens with a friend yesterday, and he reminded me that on anything too extreme, e.g. they want to close down all the coal fired power stations (most of the country's source of electricity), the government and the coalition would probably vote together, making the Greens irrelevant.
I can't stand Christine Milne: she is so strident and is already declaring that they will have all the power after the election.

Calliope · 3 August 2010

We are going to see more of the REAL Julia;

“You’ve been seeing glimpses of me,” the Prime Minister revealed on the Nine Network’s Today . “But I’m going to make sure you see a whole lot more of me. I’m going to be really going for it now."

After the FAKE Julia photo spread in the Womens Weekly the REAL Julia is going to do a centre-fold spread for a men's magazine.

trainspotter · 3 August 2010

Perish the thought Calliope !

drsmith · 3 August 2010

Julia said:
Yes, this is just one of the scary policies of the Greens, and one with which Labor will have sympathy. However, to abolish the rebate would be hugely unpopular with a large section of the electorate so I'd be very surprised if it happened. Undoubtedly they'd institute a fairly tough means test, though.

The Democrats would go the full journey, phasing out all private health insurance subsidies. One would assume this also means the medicare levy surcharge which is also in effect a subsidy.

http://www.democrats.org.au/policies/Action2010/Health_AP.pdf

It's hard to imagine the Greens being idiologically different.

Government support of private health needs to be reformed. The current situation where you take private health cover to avoid a tax (a tax that should have never been levied in the first place) with no consideration to the service received is ridiculous.

If the government provides universal health care then support has to be offered to the private health sector. It is unreasonable to expect people to pay twice. A simple model would be goverment healthcare to a given level (scheduled fee) with this payable to private sector services. Private health insurance could then cover the difference between the scheduled fee and the private fee.

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