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20 years Bear Market and the 4th Turning?

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This is an excellent piece of article from John Mauldin's free newsletter. This is a must read in my opinion since the "research" and "predictions" Neil Howe has made in the books was back in 1997 and based on my understanding so far (without actually having reading the book just yet), are based on facts and historic data, not pure theoritical predictions.

My opinion is that it seems very plausible we may be seeing a repeat of the historic cycles that has occured over countless generations. The incoming 4th Turning will see a great change that would change the social and economical landscape forever.

Enjoy the read.


 

bear with me, this is a long article...heh
 

Of course, this research only applies to what happened in the US. How "correlated" Australia would be in his cycles and how globalisation would imbalance that correlations is still unknown at this stage.
 
It would be interesting to see if these 80 year cycles appear not just Australia but in non-Western cultures also. Say long established ones like China or the Middle East.

It's possible that this cycle could be a behavioural phenomenon in English speaking cultures - ie rebelling against the last generation. Whereas in Asian cultures the elders in the community are revered and actually respected, so their ideas might be implemented and not passed over.
 
The US have had it good for so long and think it will return.Unfortunately it wont and the mantle will be handed over to someone else who is willing to work hard and earn it.
No one in Europe or America has that commitment therefore it will come from Asia, India or China are the big contenders.
The US domination of world power has begun to slide and I like many cant seeing it get back to its strength (like it once was) for a very long time.
Bye Bye Miss American Pie.
 

Interesting.....

You just have to look at India and China buying up some big names going real cheap to see this is already happening. Eg Tata Communications recent purchase of B.T. International - means now Indian companies now control roughly 1/3rd of all international cable comms. At least its not China who might choose to implement selective "filtering" on who and what gets sent via their networks, such as banning VOIP.
 
Every "great civilisation" rises, plateaus and declines and is replaced by another - and the decline is typically seen with a decline in morals, increase in hedonism and some other aspects which escape me atm.
Some writers believe western civilisation is in the decline stage. I tend to think that we are but the decline is more gradual than in the past and will take a long time.

But the environment will prob decline faster.

INteresting article...
 
Another author who writes about the imminent decline of the West is Ronald Weinland - http://www.the-end.com/

If you include Nostradamus & even the bible, they all point to an era sometime soon. The year 2012 has been banded about as the year of great upheaval.

If you believe all this, then live now like there's no tomorrow.

I do though agree with you johenmo, that a decline of some sort has begun in the West just like past empires & world powers. I think we will gradually get poorer & our standard of living will decline. This will probably lead to big social problems etc.

Cheers
 
Of course, this research only applies to what happened in the US. How "correlated" Australia would be in his cycles and how globalisation would imbalance that correlations is still unknown at this stage.

Thanks Temjin, I have read a book by Harry S Dent that reads in similar terms with 80 year cycles and other cycles and waves. Dent has previously written other books (which I have not read) and claim to have picked the good times we have just had. His book The Great Depression Ahead does give some overview of other nations. From memory Aus will follow suite but nowhere near as bad. Worth a read albeit a little heavy going at times.

I had heard recently (once) of generation Z (born 2000+) and called the 'We generation'. Seems to fit with what is suggested in the article you have attached.
 
I had heard recently (once) of generation Z (born 2000+) and called the 'We generation'. Seems to fit with what is suggested in the article you have attached.

You mean all the fat 9 year olds?

All things change.. longer term cycles aren't too out there in terms of theories. I think we could be 10 years away from a major war, maybe less. Not sure who, but there are a few contenders. These tend to accompany great economic and societial change more than any other (as the article states). It is a scary thought, but major wars have always occured every couple of decades, we cannot avoid them as we are human.

Again the article points out a valuable point, the values of each generation change slightly based on the era in which it takes place.. I know my attitude can be different to the baby boomers 25 years above me, and those 15 years younger than me. We all experienced different things which shapes our opinions and ways of live, whether we notice it or not at the time.. often it's more obvious later on.

I think the generation below ("gen y") is pretty soft, but the generation after that will be a much harder nut, possibly born into the struggles and economic problems that are forming today. They may also have a much greater fear or belief in the environment and sustainability, which will also play a big part of their lives.
 
Right so World War I was part of the glorious third turn last time. Next time please try and keep the comedy shorter.
 
So the World Wars didn't have any economic, social, or inact long lasting changes in the world?

Now that's funny..
 
I think we could be 10 years away from a major war, maybe less.

I think you might be right if you use history as a judge.

If you look back through history, there is rarely a year or decade that does not have a conflict going on at some point on the planet. Be it two tribes, city states, or countries, or regions, or coalitions.

Warfare does not just have to be spilling blood, it can be a political alliance or economic sanctions. The last two are manuevring for higher ground.

We are a competitive species. We compete with other creatures and plants and each other for survival, I think it will be a long, long time before warfare becomes extinct.

Physical warfare is a major catalyst for societal change. Although we are involved in two conflicts at the moment, it does not seem to be a catalyst for Australian society at the moment.

Even if you look at Vietnam or WWI, both wars where we were not in any danger of invasion, they still changed attitudes and economics here (Federal income tax was introduced in WWI for example).

Anyway, back to work.......
 

As third world rises and first world slips (but not in their own minds) the balance shifts and people get resentful. Afterall it's one's "right" to be sheriff of the world/world leader/etc.

I think a global war will only come about through one or two crazies (as usual?). Otherwise lots of little wars to keep arms merchants ticking along nicely - better than trading!!
 
I had heard recently (once) of generation Z (born 2000+) and called the 'We generation'. Seems to fit with what is suggested in the article you have attached.

Whoops.. I meant 1990+ not 2000. Recall now one of the kids just fell into this group. Anyway only heard it once, not sure the "z gen" will stick. and since I only heard it maybe it was supossed to be "Wii generation"
 
Thinking about events locally and nationally (Australia), that all makes a hell of a lot of sense to me in terms of what's actually happened over the past few decades and seems to be happening now.
 
Thinking about events locally and nationally (Australia), that all makes a hell of a lot of sense to me in terms of what's actually happened over the past few decades and seems to be happening now.

On the positive side, at least we are conscious of the potential secular change going on out there and can position ourselves to benefit from it.

The problem is that most people still believe the pre-bust credit boom era will be back with us after their "preferred" V-shape recovery. That lending will go back to normal again and that consumption would be as "beyond means" as before. And that asset prices like shares and properties will grow beyond its historic rate (like 30%+ p.a. for shares and 15%+ p.a. for properties) forever.

Is China really going to insulate us from the secular change in US consumers' behaviors? Are they capable of replacing every single lost US consumption dollar in a relatively short time? I don't have too much faith in that at least in the short term.

As for potential world wars, I really hope not. I don't see any countries would be sane enough to start invading other countries for resources at least in the next few years. (i.e. full scale invasion) But I may see strategic strikes along with political and economic pressure to achieve the same result.
 

Whatever you do, don't read any history books.

Planet Earth is overdue for one from historical accounts.
 
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