Gay parenting

[Value Collector]

Check you numbers then come back and argue the toss. You have your blinkers on.

Even if all those assumptions were true, which they aren't, it doesn't come close to 30%, so it has to be heterosexual activity, your the one wearing homophobic blinkers my friend.

 

[Value Collector]

99% of the population will be heterosexual. That's not sufficient gender diversity to believe that heterosexuals would benefit by being raised by 1% of the population.



I've said before, you will be doing damage to children if you are wrong, so you prove your case first that there is no harm before you inflict your PC theories on others.,

That's right, nearly 99% of the population is straight, so there is plenty of straight influence all around kids as they grow up, not to mention that they will be what they are regardless.

I can make up any crazy hypothesis that certain things will cause damage, is it up to you to prove me wrong or me to prove what I say is true?

I mean if your wrong you will cause damage,

 

[trainspotter]

That's right, nearly 99% of the population is straight, so there is plenty of straight influence all around kids as they grow up, not to mention that they will be what they are regardless.

I can make up any crazy hypothesis that certain things will cause damage, is it up to you to prove me wrong or me to prove what I say is true?

I mean if your wrong you will cause damage,

Have a look at evolution ... yep things are getting queer around here ... Last time I looked it takes a MUMMY and a DADDY ... which one are you ? Do you sit down to piss? Do you take the upper hand? Ying and Yang not Equal FERKIN rights to whom? Society is guilt ridden enough without adding more grist to the mill.

 

[Value Collector]

Have a look at evolution ... yep things are getting queer around here ... Last time I looked it takes a MUMMY and a DADDY ... which one are you ? Do you sit down to piss? Do you take the upper hand? Ying and Yang not Equal FERKIN rights to whom? Society is guilt ridden enough without adding more grist to the mill.

If you want to reduce guilt, reduce religion, that's the biggest guilt generating entity we have, and it's not a coincidence that it's the main opposition to gay rights.

 

[ghotib]

The original question was What's uniquely gay about gay parenting?

6 days and 5 pages later nobody has answered it. The closest is Sir Rumpole, who says there's probably nothing uniquely gay about the process of parenting but the fact of living in a gay household might have an effect, unspecified but by implication unfortunate, on a child. Nobody talked about how gay single parents might be identifiably different from straight single parents.

I think this suggests that nobody on this thread can define gay parenting, and I think the very good reason for that is most likely that it doesn't exist. There's just families.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think this suggests that nobody on this thread can define gay parenting, and I think the very good reason for that is most likely that it doesn't exist. There's just families.

Gay parenting is when the two parents (or substitute parents) of a household where a child is raised are of the same sex. What more do you want than that ?

 

[SirRumpole]

That's right, nearly 99% of the population is straight, so there is plenty of straight influence all around kids as they grow up, not to mention that they will be what they are regardless.

The "straight influence" does not come from the home environment which should be the main source because that is where the biological links are. Outside influence may be good or bad, it doesn't care for the child as much as biological parents do.

 

[Tink]

The original question was What's uniquely gay about gay parenting?

6 days and 5 pages later nobody has answered it. The closest is Sir Rumpole, who says there's probably nothing uniquely gay about the process of parenting but the fact of living in a gay household might have an effect, unspecified but by implication unfortunate, on a child. Nobody talked about how gay single parents might be identifiably different from straight single parents.

I think this suggests that nobody on this thread can define gay parenting, and I think the very good reason for that is most likely that it doesn't exist. There's just families.

I suppose another question is -- what is family?

If you took an individual out of the context and asked about their family, what would be their answer?

Their roots, their heritage, where they came from?

People don't just pop up out of thin air.

The first thing they would say, is my mother and father, their siblings, their grand parents etc.

All this marketing language to push a cause, gets a bit tiring.

 

[Tisme]

Even if all those assumptions were true, which they aren't, it doesn't come close to 30%, so it has to be heterosexual activity, your the one wearing homophobic blinkers my friend.

I can see you are being stubborn in the face of fact. I'll give you a starter = UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA - AFRICAN STUDIES CENTER

here's another clue:

The proportion of HIV-positive women in stable heterosexual serodiscordant relationships was 47% (95% CI 43-52) in 27 cohort studies enrolling 13,061 couples and 46% (CI 41-51) in Demographic and Health Survey data from 14 countries. Women are just as likely as men to be the HIV-positive partner in a discordant couple.

You even going to bother referring to case studies or just continue with blind faith?

 

[Tisme]

That's right, nearly 99% of the population is straight, so there is plenty of straight influence all around kids as they grow up, not to mention that they will be what they are regardless.

I can make up any crazy hypothesis that certain things will cause damage, is it up to you to prove me wrong or me to prove what I say is true?

I mean if your wrong you will cause damage,

Some people get Rolls Royce parenting, others get the Holden, some used and abused cars and then you get the failures of the motoring public who buy the Morris Marina because it's different and 'exotic'.:- little concern about the way it looked, body roll, the shocking handling, the repair bills, the cabin water ingress, the shaking and rattling, heavy steering ... bucket of bolts on wheels playing car..... an expensive exercise that contributed to the parent's demise (thank goodness).

Do I hear anyone up for the P76?

 

[SirRumpole]

That's right, nearly 99% of the population is straight, so there is plenty of straight influence all around kids as they grow up, not to mention that they will be what they are regardless.

I can make up any crazy hypothesis that certain things will cause damage, is it up to you to prove me wrong or me to prove what I say is true?

I mean if your wrong you will cause damage,

The bottom line is this.

In the case of a child being reared by two lesbians, they are saying that fatherhood has no value.

When two male homosexuals raise a child they are saying that motherhood has no value.

Do you think 99% of the population agree with either or both of the above ?

I don't think so.

So keep putting up your PC theories if you like, but you are pretty much out in the cold afaic.

 

[Value Collector]

The bottom line is this.

In the case of a child being reared by two lesbians, they are saying that fatherhood has no value.

When two male homosexuals raise a child they are saying that motherhood has no value.

.

I haven't heard any one say those things, and I certainly don't believe those things.

What I do believe though is it takes a lot more than gender to make a good parent, and strong, supportive family units can come in all shapes and sizes.

I don't think you can say the average gay couple will be any worse (or better) than the average straight couple, there is simply far to many more important variables.

 

[Value Collector]

Some people get Rolls Royce parenting, others get the Holden, some used and abused cars and then you get the failures of the motoring public who buy the Morris Marina because it's different and 'exotic'.:- little concern about the way it looked, body roll, the shocking handling, the repair bills, the cabin water ingress, the shaking and rattling, heavy steering ... bucket of bolts on wheels playing car..... an expensive exercise that contributed to the parent's demise (thank goodness).

Do I hear anyone up for the P76?

Rolls Royce? Holden?

You don't have to be perfect to be the perfect parent!

 

[sydboy007]

Gay parenting is when the two parents (or substitute parents) of a household where a child is raised are of the same sex. What more do you want than that ?

A bit like saying the car is red.

Yes we know that there is a red car. Is it old or new. Sports, SUV, hatchback?

Nope.

Same with gay parenting. As you have defined it, we know that the parents are of the same sex raising children.

Are they good parents or bad? Are they loving or indifferent?

No we don't.

So the term in and of itself is really only useful in providing information on if the parents are the same or opposite sex. It doesn't even tell us what sex the parents are.

 

[sydboy007]

I suppose another question is -- what is family?

If you took an individual out of the context and asked about their family, what would be their answer?

Their roots, their heritage, where they came from?

People don't just pop up out of thin air.

The first thing they would say, is my mother and father, their siblings, their grand parents etc.

All this marketing language to push a cause, gets a bit tiring.

And if the children have same sex parents they'll talk about both their parents, about their grand parents, if the extended family was born overseas.

As Ghotib has tried to point out, you're not actually showing what is unique about gay parenting except for the fact that the parents are of the same sex. Except for that, what else would ONLY be true for gay parenting?

 

[SirRumpole]

I haven't heard any one say those things, and I certainly don't believe those things.

What I do believe though is it takes a lot more than gender to make a good parent, and strong, supportive family units can come in all shapes and sizes.

I don't think you can say the average gay couple will be any worse (or better) than the average straight couple, there is simply far to many more important variables.

OK then VC, don't bother having any kids of your own, just squirt into a bottle and give it to a couple of your gay mates, I'm sure they will do just as good a job as you would have.

 

[SirRumpole]

Except for that, what else would ONLY be true for gay parenting?

It's not a matter of what is TRUE for gay parenting, it's what is FALSE. No father or mother role model, a home environment that will be different to what they will experience when they grow up.

Another example. A white child falls of the back of a ute in the outback, is found and bought up by aboriginals who only speak their own language and don't teach the child anything about the white mans world. How prepared is that child to live with the 98% of the population who are not aboriginal ?

 

[Value Collector]

How prepared is that child to live with the 98% of the population who are not aboriginal ?

According to you as long as the child's aboriginal parents are straight, the child should be fine.

What if the owners of the ute were gay parents, and the aboriginals were hetero, is he better with the aboriginals then?

This example shows that there are a lot more important factors than sexuality.

But either way, how are we judging it, are we judging it on quality of life, maybe the child raised in the bush had a better life, who knows?

The question shows some of your bias, you are assuming a life in the "(heterosexual) white mans world", is superior to all other options.

 

[SirRumpole]

The question shows some of your bias, you are assuming a life in the "(heterosexual) white mans world", is superior to all other options.

No-one mentioned "superiority", it's a fact that 98% of the population is non aboriginal, as is the white child. He has not been raised with the skills needed to get on in the real world that he is most likely to be living in.

 

[luutzu]

What makes a father and what makes a mother? It's more than just genitalia right?

In terms of gender role, or parenting role model... don't think we can assume that gay parents will mean the child is missing out on one gender.

I mean, from the people i saw, the traditional role model of a father-figure (masculine) and mother-figure (feminine, stay at home, cook, clean)... those don't really exists anymore, and in either male or female homosexual couple, aren't there always one who's more "masculine" than the other?

Same as in straight relationship where one is more "tough" than the other, and it's not always the stereotypical male father smoking a pipe and the mother always wearing her apron either.

So in terms of a child missing out a gender appropriate role model if raise by gay parents, I don't think that's such a big issue - if an issue at all.

I mean you can see cases where a perfectly straight father would be doing things that might be normal and metro but to some it's pretty "gay".


In the end, I think children will turn out OK if they are loved by their parents, raised in a loving family. The quirks or styles of whatever material or social inadequacy either parent might have is of no real significance to the child's well being. Yea it'd be nice if all children have parents who are well to do, could take the family out every weekend, could spend all the time after 5PM tutoring them, live in a nice house with a decent yard etc. etc... and be straight too...