NBN Rollout Scrapped

[So_Cynical]

You may be correct, to give you your due, that in a perfect world, this technology, may be feasible.

May be feasible? 20 year old technology..

Are you Drunk?

 

[sptrawler]

I think the biggest threat from the NBN is it will give kids more reasons to sit on their @rses inside playing computer games.
Rather than being outside playing.

You think type 2 diabietes and heart desease is a problem now, wait and see what happens when the kids can game at bling speed.

What a brilliant achievement.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

You just don't get it mate.

What a load of crock.

A scheme was announced, and as we go, we find the problems and throw more money at it.

If the NBN were a listed company it would be broke by now.

gg

FAC is Fibro Asbestos Cement, or it was when I was with Telstra. You say "as far as I am aware". A strange admission for a guy who has assumed the role of NBN mouthpiece on this forum.

I certainly do not want some contractor employing a kid who escaped the Pink Batt's fiasco, with a trenching machine coming down my street and in to my yard when there is asbestosis about.

This is complete bollox NBNMyths.

You may be correct, to give you your due, that in a perfect world, this technology, may be feasible.

We do not however live in a perfect world.

The scheme is wildly over budget.

The wireless/satellite companies are lining up to cherry pick the profitable customers.

It proves the point though that just as doctors should be paid by the number of people kept healthy, as in China, and not by the number they cure, the same should be expected of the NBN.

It is not about trenches.

It is about getting a fast cheap internet, safely, at the best price, to the most people.

gg

May be feasible? 20 year old technology..

Are you Drunk?

As your favourite politician once said, please explain.

gg

 

[NBNMyths]

FAC is Fibro Asbestos Cement, or it was when I was with Telstra. You say "as far as I am aware". A strange admission for a guy who has assumed the role of NBN mouthpiece on this forum.

I think you misunderstand.

There is no debate about whether Telstra are required to remediate or replace their pit and pipe for the NBN.

But how they do so is entirely up to Telstra. It's their infrastructure, and it will remain so. I only mention the method, because I read that's how they did it in Brunswick.

 

[NBNMyths]

I certainly do not want some contractor employing a kid who escaped the Pink Batt's fiasco, with a trenching machine coming down my street and in to my yard when there is asbestosis about.

This is complete bollox NBNMyths.

You may be correct, to give you your due, that in a perfect world, this technology, may be feasible.

We do not however live in a perfect world.

The scheme is wildly over budget.

The wireless/satellite companies are lining up to cherry pick the profitable customers.

It proves the point though that just as doctors should be paid by the number of people kept healthy, as in China, and not by the number they cure, the same should be expected of the NBN.

It is not about trenches.

It is about getting a fast cheap internet, safely, at the best price, to the most people.

gg

That's a wonderful goalpost move. First complain about the NBN Co digging everything up, then complain about the ducts they will use!


It is Telstra who own the ducts. It is Telstra who will remediate their ducts as and if required. It is Telstra who will pay to do so. It is Telstra who will choose whether to use their own employees, or bring in contractors.


Is it wildly over budget? Would you care to supply a reference or any evidence of such. I suggest that claim is about as accurate as the first post in this thread.


The NBN's most profitable customers are those who choose the fastest, biggest plans. Like a terabyte at 100/40. That is volume and speed that is simply not available at any price on wireless or satellite. So how can wireless/sat be taking NBN's most profitable customers?

The fact is that any loss to wireless is at the absolute bottom end of the market. People who only want a phone (no broadband), or only a very light internet users who can get away with the few GB a wireless connection offers.

As for satellite, nobody who has access to a fixed broadband connection would choose a sat connection instead. Outside the fixed network, the NBN satellite service is much cheaper than non-NBN satellite services. When the NBN interim sat service started, it offered 6x the speed at 1/4 the price of the private satellite services. When the permanent NBN sats are launched, they will be 25x faster at 1/4 the price.

 

[drsmith]

The 3-month delay in the June 2013 figures is disappointing, but I suppose to be expected given what they've been saying for the last couple of months about Syntheo's areas of WA, SA and NT.

NSW, QLD, ACT, VIC and TAS are all on track AFAIK, and NBN Co have now relieved Syntheo of NT and are going to finish it themselves.

They have also added two more contractors in NSW and VIC in the last few months, being Visionstream and Downer EDI, again on-budget. I believe they are also looking at adding a second contractor in SA, being the power company which rolled out the Willunga trial site.

Whole project is still on budget, AFAIK.

Time will tell.

On the delays so far, it's hard not to be a sceptic.

 

[sptrawler]

Sounds like the bell bottom of a pear shape is developing, doc.

 

[Calliope]

Time will tell.

On the delays so far, it's hard not to be a sceptic.

One thing you can't be sceptical about is NBNMyths' loyalty and support for Conroy and Quigley. When you consider Labor's continual record of failure in delivering success in any enterprise, his faith is quite touching. His faith is of course is based on the assumption that if you pour unlimited billions into a project, then no matter how badly managed, or how long it takes, it must succeed.

 

[NBNMyths]

One thing you can't be sceptical about is NBNMyths' loyalty and support for Conroy and Quigley. When you consider Labor's continual record of failure in delivering success in any enterprise, his faith is quite touching. His faith is of course is based on the assumption that if you pour unlimited billions into a project, then no matter how badly managed, or how long it takes, it must succeed.

You just keep on building that strawman up, huh.

I've said repeatedly that I don't have any particular feelings about Conroy.

But Quigley has a long and well respected history in global telecommunications. You don't rise from being a nobody at Alcatel Australia to COO of a multi-billion dollar global company if you are a moron who can't manage a project.

 

[dutchie]

You just keep on building that strawman up, huh.

I've said repeatedly that I don't have any particular feelings about Conroy.

But Quigley has a long and well respected history in global telecommunications. You don't rise from being a nobody at Alcatel Australia to COO of a multi-billion dollar global company if you are a moron who can't manage a project.

But if your working for a whole pack of morons who can't manage any project (let alone their own party) then you can be as clever as ever - but it will still be a dud project.

 

[pilots]

But if your working for a whole pack of morons who can't manage any project (let alone their own party) then you can be as clever as ever - but it will still be a dud project.

####but it will still be a dud project#### You for got the word EXPENSIVE, EVERY thing they have done has been a EXPENSIVE DUD project.

 

[Calliope]

You just keep on building that strawman up, huh.

I've said repeatedly that I don't have any particular feelings about Conroy.

But Quigley has a long and well respected history in global telecommunications. You don't rise from being a nobody at Alcatel Australia to COO of a multi-billion dollar global company if you are a moron who can't manage a project.

I know your spin is very persuasive but the facts are that you can't separate the "nice guy" Quigley from the duplicitous Conroy. They are joined at the hip, and also Quigley didn't leave Alcate with exactly clean hands.

But let's cut to a third member of this gang, Mike Kaiser, who Conroy recruited on an annual salary of $450,000 in charge of "quality". His main recommendation is that he had to resign from the Qld parliament for electoral fraud. Conroy should have asked George Brandis for a recommendation;

WHO IS MIKE KAISER?
“…(He is) a hardened young serial offender - premeditated, systematic,
amoral, shameless, remorseless - educating and corrupting new generations
of young Labor activists into the corrupt old culture over which he presided.
No wonder Mr Beattie struck a chord three years ago when he called him
‘scum, scum, scum’.”
(Source: Senator George Brandis, Liberal MP, ABC Lateline, aired 19/08/2003)

No doubt Conroy can use his particular skills...but "quality" ain't one of them.



How to get a $450,000 job: no ads required - just a nice word from the minister

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...the-minister-20100209-no66.html#ixzz2PGMzChyG

 

[NBNMyths]

But if your working for a whole pack of morons who can't manage any project (let alone their own party) then you can be as clever as ever - but it will still be a dud project.

####but it will still be a dud project#### You for got the word EXPENSIVE, EVERY thing they have done has been a EXPENSIVE DUD project.

I know your spin is very persuasive but the facts are that you can't separate the "nice guy" Quigley from the duplicitous Conroy. They are joined at the hip, and also Quigley didn't leave Alcate with exactly clean hands.

But let's cut to a third member of this gang, Mike Kaiser, who Conroy recruited on an annual salary of $450,000 in charge of "quality". His main recommendation is that he had to resign from the Qld parliament for electoral fraud. Conroy should have asked George Brandis for a recommendation;

No doubt Conroy can use his particular skills...but "quality" ain't one of them.

Well, aren't we all proficient with the logical fallacies.

I think "The myth of Governmental competence" is a good place for those who look back on the Howard years through rose coloured glasses:
http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/03/keane-essay-the-myth-of-governmental-competence/

That article aside, it's pretty easy not to overspend on projects if you don't undertake very many. The fact is that essentially every major project, be it Government or private, suffers from delays and/or budget overruns. It is a fact of life.


Conroy may well have recruited Kaiser for political reasons. Again, a fact of life (albeit annoying) when it comes to Governments. In case you haven't noticed, the Coalition parties are no different. Just look at the plethora of former Liberal leaders and MPs who have scored plum jobs in NSW over the last 2 years. Not to mention the scandals already hitting the Qld LNP.

In Kaiser's defence, Sen Brandis is hardly a neutral commentator, Kaiser's electrical transgression was 30 years ago as a Uni student, and he does hold a Bachelor of Electrical Engineering and a Bachelor of Economics which would seem to be appropriate qualifications for his role at NBN Co.

Tony Abbott tells us he's a changed man since he was at Uni. That his behaviour and attitudes are not the same now. Could that not be true of Mike Kaiser too? Or is it only Coalition politicians who are able to leave their embarrassing past behind?

 

[drsmith]

I think "The myth of Governmental competence" is a good place for those who look back on the Howard years through rose coloured glasses:
http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/03/keane-essay-the-myth-of-governmental-competence/

That article aside, it's pretty easy not to overspend on projects if you don't undertake very many. The fact is that essentially every major project, be it Government or private, suffers from delays and/or budget overruns. It is a fact of life.

Not everyone who is dissatisfied with this government looks at the Howard years through rose coloured glasses.

Your political horse is dead. The only flogging it's worthy of now is the one it'll cop at the election.

A government that excuses project delays and/or budget overruns as a fact of life deserves nothing more from the electorate.

 

[Calliope]

Well, aren't we all proficient with the logical fallacies.
Conroy may well have recruited Kaiser for political reasons. Again, a fact of life (albeit annoying) when it comes to Governments. In case you haven't noticed, the Coalition parties are no different. Just look at the plethora of former Liberal leaders and MPs who have scored plum jobs in NSW over the last 2 years. Not to mention the scandals already hitting the Qld LNP.

In Kaiser's defence, Sen Brandis is hardly a neutral commentator, Kaiser's electrical transgression was 30 years ago as a Uni student, and he does hold a Bachelor of Electrical Engineering and a Bachelor of Economics which would seem to be appropriate qualifications for his role at NBN Co.

I hadn't heard about Kaiser's "electrical transgression". What did he do? Blow up the lab? It's what he did later which made Peter Beatty describe him as scum. He was forced to resign as a state MP after revelations about branch-stacking in Queensland Labor.

I see you have adopted the party line of blaming everything that goes wrong on the Coalition...blame Howard and Abbott. You say Brandis is not a neutral commentator, but unlike you, what he said was the truth. It is impossible for you to stick to the truth and still follow the Party line, hence your fallacious reasoning.

Conroy, Quigley and Kaiser are all tarred with the same brush.

 

[NBNMyths]

I hadn't heard about Kaiser's "electrical transgression". What did he do? Blow up the lab? It's what he did later which made Peter Beatty describe him as scum. He was forced to resign as a state MP after revelations about branch-stacking in Queensland Labor.

I see you have adopted the party line of blaming everything that goes wrong on the Coalition...blame Howard and Abbott. You say Brandis is not a neutral commentator, but unlike you, what he said was the truth. It is impossible for you to stick to the truth and still follow the Party line, hence your fallacious reasoning.

Conroy, Quigley and Kaiser are all tarred with the same brush.

I take my hat off at your incredible skill at strawmanning. You are extremely proficient at arguing against points I have never made and positions I don't have.

Damn autocorrect. Electoral transgression. Yes, Kaiser's resignation was about branch stacking. It occurred in 1986, but was not exposed until 2001, at which point he resigned as an MP.

Where did I blame Howard or Abbott for anything? Although if you'd like some Howard-era blame related to the NBN, I'll provide some....

• Privatising Telstra as a vertical monopoly was a disaster for consumers.
• Allowing the appointment of the "three amigos" to Telstra was also a disaster for consumers (and shareholders).
• Allowing Telstra to ride roughshod over other ISPs and the ACCC with regards to ADSL2+ and FTTN was yet another disaster for consumers.

Had these three key policy disasters not occurred, it is highly likely we wouldn't be having a debate about the NBN today.

You quoted Brandis' opinion. He might think it's the truth, and no doubt you do. But two opinions does not a fact make.

 

[Calliope]

I take my hat off at your incredible skill at strawmanning. You are extremely proficient at arguing against points I have never made and positions I don't have.

Well one position you have made abundantly clear is that you are a Labor Party hack.

Where did I blame Howard or Abbott for anything? Although if you'd like some Howard-era blame related to the NBN, I'll provide some....

[*]Privatising Telstra as a vertical monopoly was a disaster for consumers.
[*]Allowing the appointment of the "three amigos" to Telstra was also a disaster for consumers (and shareholders).
[*]Allowing Telstra to ride roughshod over other ISPs and the ACCC with regards to ADSL2+ and FTTN was yet another disaster for consumers.

More fallacious reasoning. Howard's mistakes excuses Labor's incompetence.
Abbott punching a wall excuses Kaiser's skullduggery.

You quoted Brandis' opinion. He might think it's the truth, and no doubt you do. But two opinions does not a fact make.

I see...but Conroy's and your opinion do "a fact make". You obviously think that Conroy's and Gillard's lies are facts. You must be well rusted on to be so gullible.

 

[NBNMyths]

Playing strawman baseball, Calliope style:

Well one position you have made abundantly clear is that you are a Labor Party hack.

Have I? I believe my statements have been quite clear that while I generally vote Labor, I do not (and have not) always done so. I have also been clear that I'm no huge fan of Conroy.

Supporting the NBN is not the same as supporting Labor. In fact, most of the Australian public, most of the global IT and communications sector and every Federal politician (ie: Labor, Green, Katter, Windsor, Oakeshott, Wilkie, Xenaphon) except for the coalition back the NBN.

Strike 1.

More fallacious reasoning. Howard's mistakes excuses Labor's incompetence.
Abbott punching a wall excuses Kaiser's skullduggery.

I don't think Labor is running the NBN with incompetence. I never mentioned Abbott's wall punch. I stated that I don't know whether Kaiser's appointment was purely political or whether he was the right man for the job. I also lamented political appointments in general.

Strike 2.

I see...but Conroy's and your opinion do "a fact make". You obviously think that Conroy's and Gillard's lies are facts. You must be well rusted on to be so gullible.

I only argued that Brandis stated a biased opinion, which you agree with. I never claimed that the opposite was the "fact". I've never written anything in support of PM Gillard, whom I'm also not a massive fan of.

Strike 3, you're out.

 

[Calliope]

In fact, most of the Australian public, most of the global IT and communications sector and every Federal politician (ie: Labor, Green, Katter, Windsor, Oakeshott, Wilkie, Xenaphon) except for the coalition back the NBN.

Only a fool would not support high speed broadband. The politicians you mention are mainly grubs and grafters

I don't think Labor is running the NBN with incompetence.

Of course you don't. You follow the Party line.

I never mentioned Abbott's wall punch.

No? In your defence of Kaiser you said;

Tony Abbott tells us he's a changed man since he was at Uni. That his behaviour and attitudes are not the same now

What part of Abbott's Uni behavior were you referring to?

I only argued that Brandis stated a biased opinion, which you agree with. I never claimed that the opposite was the "fact". I've never written anything in support of PM Gillard, whom I'm also not a massive fan of

.
So you're not a "huge fan". of Conroy and you're not a "massive fan" of Gillard. Moderate to high perhaps. I think you may be a massive fan of McTernan the king of spin.

Four more strikes against your credibility.

 

[TheAbyss]

Howdy,

Great thread with some very well made points for and against.

I would like to add that high speed internet access is a must have. Whether the NBN is the right model, time will tell. As we have progressed from 2400 baud-56kb modems to ADSL, ADSL 2 and Ethernet, users have found new and innovative uses for the increased bandwidth.

The latest speeds bandied about are 100mb/40mb which are tremendous and provides the platform for the next wave of Business to business technologies. Check out Geospatial augmented reality in your spare time or check out Cornings A day made of Glass 2 (Day made of glass 1 has all been delivered)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZkHpNnXLB0

Without high speed data this technology isn't available.

I personally am excited to see what can be leveraged on the back of this new bandwidth. Picture Cornings glass as what were previously known as CRT Screens, yesterdays Plasma, todays LCD. All tools to provide information and all require input.

If NBN plan A doesn't deliver then they will go for plan b and keep going until it delivers imo. Embrace it and think about how you can use it to your advantage.


Cheers