Australia - No Place For Real Men

[explod]

This woman thing has gone too far. Women already have too many opinions. I guess it is their right but the time for reminding ourselves that women are now allowed to do this and that is long gone. Yes, I know women have opinions as I am constantly reminded by every single source of communication that women this, women that ......

I care about women in so far as they're the erotic naked kind, beyond that I just don't want to hear about it anymore.

That being said, Tony Abbott is not a real man. He is a soft handed, blue blooded posh private school boy inner city elitist scum bag who has never done a hard days work in his life and would in fact shatter the lively hood of many of these stereotypical "real men".

Gillard has also been the victim of terrible sexism and abuse and this country should be ashamed. That has nothing to do with her being a woman and a lot to do with the attitude of others towards women, which unfortunately yes, old men in positions of power with lots and lots of money do tend to be a tad sexist.

All these rights women have, how dare they, indeed the cheek they have.

We blokes have not done a very good job of the world and I bet with women more in control (and they are not yet) to an equal degree, there would be less war and more productivity as pointed out in a post I made yesterday.

You like the look of them and I do agree; sad but very true that a lot of our brains are below the belt.

"Old men a tad sexist" you are so kind.

I support you comment on the treatment of Gillard but I do think it has more to do with her being a woman than most will concede.

Not an Abbott fan myself but do not agree on his manhood as you put it. We have the freedom in this wonderful country to be as we want and I do not believe there is a particular stereotype that describes a man in the context of our conversation here.

I will think about this, maybe we need to re-define/direct the path of our discussion in line with the thread title.

You do know how to spin a ball gg.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Has a Y chromosome.

Sorry to sound glib but that is my real answer. I don't feel my sense of being a man is dependpant on anythng else, and the characteristics that I admire in male role models are also present in females. I can list those characteristics in that context if you wish.

The story of Jesus: By Some Dude.

In a manger, in a faraway place, called Bethlehem, a baby Jesus was born to a woman called Mary and her partner Josephine with the help of a Blessed IVF Team called Three Wise Men.......

I take back what I said about you and will place you on ignore again, as you sound like the second Mrs Gumnut who still manages to annoy me.

On one thing we do agree. You are a glib pillock.

gg

ps dependent is spelt that way for a reason, so that it does not rhyme with pedant.

gg

 

[wayneL]

All these rights women have, how dare they, indeed the cheek they have.

We blokes have not done a very good job of the world and I bet with women more in control (and they are not yet) to an equal degree, there would be less war and more productivity as pointed out in a post I made yesterday.

You like the look of them and I do agree; sad but very true that a lot of our brains are below the belt.

"Old men a tad sexist" you are so kind.

I support you comment on the treatment of Gillard but I do think it has more to do with her being a woman than most will concede.

Not an Abbott fan myself but do not agree on his manhood as you put it. We have the freedom in this wonderful country to be as we want and I do not believe there is a particular stereotype that describes a man in the context of our conversation here.

I will think about this, maybe we need to re-define/direct the path of our discussion in line with the thread title.

You do know how to spin a ball gg.

I think you would be surprised how many you think are critical of J Gillard because of sexism would be admirers of one M Thatcher.

No, this sexism/misogyny card that is being played is pure, low down dirty politicking and you are part of that Mr Plod.

 

[Calliope]

I'm not surprised they are grinning.

Each year more Australian men die from prostate cancer than women die from breast cancer but... a national survey by PCFA in 2002 showed that while 78% of women felt well informed about breast cancer – only 52% of men felt informed about prostate cancer.

 

[Mrmagoo]

All these rights women have, how dare they, indeed the cheek they have.

We blokes have not done a very good job of the world and I bet with women more in control (and they are not yet) to an equal degree, there would be less war and more productivity as pointed out in a post I made yesterday.

You like the look of them and I do agree; sad but very true that a lot of our brains are below the belt.

"Old men a tad sexist" you are so kind.

I support you comment on the treatment of Gillard but I do think it has more to do with her being a woman than most will concede.

Not an Abbott fan myself but do not agree on his manhood as you put it. We have the freedom in this wonderful country to be as we want and I do not believe there is a particular stereotype that describes a man in the context of our conversation here.

I will think about this, maybe we need to re-define/direct the path of our discussion in line with the thread title.

You do know how to spin a ball gg.

Sorry don't know what this thing is never experienced it. From the moment I went to kinder it was "boys and girls can both do x,y,z". This sexism argument is for the far left, old people and idiots.

Everyone with half a brain knows in Australia right now just about everyone has some sort of opportunity to go out and make it. I'll admit if you didn't fall into the right path very early on in the piece it can be harder but it still can be done.

Disadvantage in this country is more based on social group, location and circumstance than it is race or gender.

I think this is a big part of where Abbott sucks. Abbott probably spends most of his time around servants signing bits of paper, prancing around or having expensive lunches. That is far from the image of a hard "Real man".

Oxford ? Give me a break...

 

[explod]

I think you would be surprised how many you think are critical of J Gillard because of sexism would be admirers of one M Thatcher.

No, this sexism/misogyny card that is being played is pure, low down dirty politicking and you are part of that Mr Plod.

You may well be right wayneL, in this we have shades of grey we do agree on topped up with respective biases.

And having gone to Church today for the first time in 20 years I am an atheistic holy blank.

 

[Julia]

I think you would be surprised how many you think are critical of J Gillard because of sexism would be admirers of one M Thatcher.

No, this sexism/misogyny card that is being played is pure, low down dirty politicking

Exactly.

With thanks to those who have offered their definition of 'a real man', I'm hoping some more of you blokes will contribute here. I am asking quite genuinely because I'm a bit worried some people see a real man as someone who can drink the next bloke under the table then boast about how bad their hangover is the next day, and who doesn't mind using his fists rather than his capacity for verbal negotiation to solve an argument.

I try to avoid commenting on personal traits of politicians, but have to admit to wincing every time I watch Mr Abbott's pugilistic stance when he walks. Probably doesn't mean anything, but I suspect most women find it less than appealing.

 

[Some Dude]

I agree with what you say about the Y chromosome and would also be very interested in seeing your gender indiscriminate list of admirable characteristics.

• Self awareness about who they are.
• Engages in industrious endeavours with passion and purpose.
• A thirst for knowledge, curious about life, the universe, and everything.
• Encourages growth in themselves and others.
• Honest about how they represent others.
• Courage and persistence in adversity with the wisdom to know when to withdraw.
• Silent about their charity.
• Accommodating of others who differ and disagree.

Does that describe me? Nope, but it doesn't stop me from identifying aspirational values and trying.

 

[Calliope]

Exactly.

With thanks to those who have offered their definition of 'a real man', I'm hoping some more of you blokes will contribute here.

Perhaps Wikipedia has the answer to this vexing question;

Real Men Don't Eat Quiche, by American Bruce Feirstein, is a bestselling tongue-in-cheek book satirizing stereotypes of masculinity, published in 1982 (ISBN 0-671-44831-5).
It popularized the term quiche-eater, in an attempt to refer to or suggest a man who is a dilettante, a trend-chaser, an over-anxious conformist to fashionable forms of 'lifestyle', and socially correct behaviors and opinions, one who eschews (or merely lacks) the traditional masculine virtue of tough self-assurance. A 'traditional' male might enjoy the ironically not so exotic egg-and-bacon pie if his wife served it to him; a quiche-eater, or Sensitive New Age Guy is alleged to make the dish himself, call it by its French name quiche, and serve it to his female life partner to demonstrate his empathy with the Women's Movement. Presumably, he would also wash up afterwards. These are also implied examples of 'women's work', and an attempt to taint the male character by association with such knowledge and activities.

 

[Some Dude]

No, this sexism/misogyny card that is being played is pure, low down dirty politicking and you are part of that Mr Plod.

I don't disagree with you that there is at least a part of the situation that is dirty politicking but I suspect that what is really annoying people is that it is seen as potentially reversing Gillard's fortunes in the polls. I'm genuinely interested in whether people actually believe that "dirty politicking" isn't utilised to the maximum possible beneficial extent by whatever political party, business group, media, etc that they vote for or support.

 

[Some Dude]

• Self awareness about who they are.
• Engages in industrious endeavours with passion and purpose.
• A thirst for knowledge, curious about life, the universe, and everything.
• Encourages growth in themselves and others.
• Honest about how they represent others.
• Courage and persistence in adversity with the wisdom to know when to withdraw.
• Silent about their charity.
• Accommodating of others who differ and disagree.

I was just reminded of what should have been at the top of my list.

• Cares about whether what they believe is true.

 

[Sean K]

Exactly.

With thanks to those who have offered their definition of 'a real man', I'm hoping some more of you blokes will contribute here. I am asking quite genuinely because I'm a bit worried some people see a real man as someone who can drink the next bloke under the table then boast about how bad their hangover is the next day, and who doesn't mind using his fists rather than his capacity for verbal negotiation to solve an argument.

I try to avoid commenting on personal traits of politicians, but have to admit to wincing every time I watch Mr Abbott's pugilistic stance when he walks. Probably doesn't mean anything, but I suspect most women find it less than appealing.

You're asking us to offload a lot of cultural baggage which I don't think is possible across a generation or three. Maybe our great grandchildren will be transitioning to gender neutral values and identity stereotypes.

 

[Some Dude]

The story of Jesus: By Some Dude.

In a manger, in a faraway place, called Bethlehem, a baby Jesus was born to a woman called Mary and her partner Josephine with the help of a Blessed IVF Team called Three Wise Men.......

I take back what I said about you and will place you on ignore again, as you sound like the second Mrs Gumnut who still manages to annoy me.

On one thing we do agree. You are a glib pillock.

gg

ps dependent is spelt that way for a reason, so that it does not rhyme with pedant.

gg

Well, given that according to the story it was immaculate conception, it wouldn't have mattered whether it was Joseph or Josephine now would it? Be sure to let us know what th punch line is sometime.

 

[Calliope]

You're asking us to offload a lot of cultural baggage which I don't think is possible across a generation or three. Maybe our great grandchildren will be transitioning to gender neutral values and identity stereotypes.

I can't see blue collar workers or tradies switching to the Metro Man concept. You never know. Time will tell.

 

[Julia]

You're asking us to offload a lot of cultural baggage which I don't think is possible across a generation or three. Maybe our great grandchildren will be transitioning to gender neutral values and identity stereotypes.

No, I wasn't asking anyone to offload any cultural baggage. Don't know where you got that idea.
I was just curious about what you blokes yourselves define a 'real man' to be. And I wasn't suggesting that gender neutral values are necessarily what should be aimed for.

The question actually arose from the inference that Tony Abbott is a real man, presumably because he's very into keeping fit (good on him) and perhaps because of his physically rather pugilistic demeanour.
I was just questioning this, but am now rather wishing I'd just shut up.

 

[Sean K]

No, I wasn't asking anyone to offload any cultural baggage. Don't know where you got that idea.

Sorry, only saw that line of thought in the last few posts. A 'real' Aussie man is still the sum of his DNA and cultural upbringing. We don't make this stuff up. Tony Abbott probably only appeals to the other Aussie men who are happy wearing budgie smugglers too...Or would like to be able to. Many would prefer to associate with something else I guess. To me, it's still all about a race to the middle for these guys and girls, in Australia. Which I like. When the radical left or right start gaining momentum, I'll start worrying.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Sorry, only saw that line of thought in the last few posts. A 'real' Aussie man is still the sum of his DNA and cultural upbringing. We don't make this stuff up. Tony Abbott probably only appeals to the other Aussie men who are happy wearing budgie smugglers too...Or would like to be able to. Many would prefer to associate with something else I guess. To me, it's still all about a race to the middle for these guys and girls, in Australia. Which I like. When the radical left or right start gaining momentum, I'll start worrying.

Good points kennas.

Some of us cannot find smugglers to fit, none the matter.

A race to the middle however is mediocrity.

And Julia, asking what are the characteristics of a " Real Man " is like asking for the characteristics of a " Good Woman ".

It's all in the vibe.

Tony has visited thousands of workplaces throughout Australia and ordinary workers know what he is like.

I for one abhor his penchant for bicycle helmets and lycra, but hey, Australia is a broad church. Some women don't like the way he walks. So what.

I don't particularly like the way Gillard walks but how she walks is her own business and I would not damn her for it.

The ALP would like to turn Australia in to a narrow, puritan, dobbing, soul-less place. No place for Real Men.

Since Paul Keating left there are only one or two real men left in the ALP, John Faulkner is one I can think of and Doug Cameron is another. There may be a few more.

gg

 

[Some Dude]

And Julia, asking what are the characteristics of a " Real Man " is like asking for the characteristics of a " Good Woman ".

So you finally understand my point then There is hope for you yet.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Perhaps Wikipedia has the answer to this vexing question;

Thanks Calliope.

Real Men Don't Eat Quiche, by American Bruce Feirstein, is a bestselling tongue-in-cheek book satirizing stereotypes of masculinity, published in 1982 (ISBN 0-671-44831-5).
It popularized the term quiche-eater, in an attempt to refer to or suggest a man who is a dilettante, a trend-chaser, an over-anxious conformist to fashionable forms of 'lifestyle', and socially correct behaviors and opinions, one who eschews (or merely lacks) the traditional masculine virtue of tough self-assurance. A 'traditional' male might enjoy the ironically not so exotic egg-and-bacon pie if his wife served it to him; a quiche-eater, or Sensitive New Age Guy is alleged to make the dish himself, call it by its French name quiche, and serve it to his female life partner to demonstrate his empathy with the Women's Movement. Presumably, he would also wash up afterwards. These are also implied examples of 'women's work', and an attempt to taint the male character by association with such knowledge and activities.

I adore quiche, and I am sure many "real men" do as well, particularly when served up by a female.

Tough self assurance is a key element which is mentioned in your quote.

I guess "Real Men" is a broad church but not determined by a church broad, nor an ALP Prime Minister or Attorney General unable to deal with tough questions.

gg

 

[MrBurns]

Real men stayed on the Titanic while women and children took the lifeboats.........