What does the Carbon Tax mean for me?

[McLovin]

I'm (kinda) happy to go with the majority, but on a major transformational issue like this, i just dont see how they can implement it without consulting the population.

Meh, every government does it, that's the way the system works. The idea is to do it early enough in the term that by the time the next election comes around the population has been pork barreled into submission or just doesn't remember it. JH was just as disingenous in the '98 election campaign about the GST being "dead and buried" as JG has been. Of course at least with JH you kind of had some idea what he stood for rather than the current PM who just flaps in the breeze of focus group opinion.

 

[McLovin]

Because governments make decisions all the time which many people don't like or agree with. How could you run a country if every policy decision made had to pass the approval of all the voters immediately?

I think you'd find it would be, has to pass the approval of all those who disagree.

 

[Eager]

You should be working for the government (um, perhaps you are?) with this level of spin!!!
If the government had managed its finances properly, it would have been able to provide flood assistance without imposing an additional levy on the population, fergawdsake!

How on earth can you suggest we should regard the end point of this levy as some sort of amelioration of the impost of the carbon tax?

Oh FFS, why can't you take my post at face value? Do you always regard the truth as spin?

At the end of the day it is a matter of dollars and cents in your pocket, agreed? Forget about whether there is give-and-take involved or not, the fact is that all the whingers conveniently forget that a levy will be removed, and the removal of that levy will ease the pain.

 

[Eager]

We will be down $700 pa according to that calculator. Typical.

What about after the flood levy is removed?

 

[sails]

What about after the flood levy is removed?

So, the flood levy is to get people being used to not having some money they've earned?

That's despicable. Working Aussies are already paying taxes and none of this pinching more money from their wallets was necessary and democracy has not been honoured, imo.

Gillard could have cut some of the wasteful spending to pay for the flood damage, but it looks like it was part of the conditioning plan, now that you've pointed it out.

Shame on the lack of democracy.

 

[sails]

... JH was just as disingenous in the '98 election campaign about the GST being "dead and buried" as JG has been....

Rubbish.

JH took his GST backflip to the people by way of election. But he didn't do the same over work choices and all his advertising did not appease the electorate one bit.

Gillard has learned nothing from JH's mistake and advertising and propaganda is only going to make those who already feel dudded more angry.

Not sure if that has already been posted, but labor has been sprung setting up a PROPAGANDA unit to sell carbon tax and good pay for the fat cats too. More waste.

LABOR has set up secret carbon price spin unit to help it sell its deeply unpopular carbon tax.

The carbon price implementation team is staffed by five Labor operatives, reporting directly to Climate Change Minister Greg Combet.

The unit's senior adviser-level head earns up to $170,000 a year, while its four adviser-level staffers draw salaries of up to $115,000.

Definition of Propaganda:

Information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
​

Read more from Coalition complains of 'propaganda' unit set up to sell Labor's carbon tax

 

[sails]

Because governments make decisions all the time which many people don't like or agree with. How could you run a country if every policy decision made had to pass the approval of all the voters immediately?

Basilo, major policy should be taken to the people. Opinion polls are showing very clearly that the people who pay the MPs their wages are not wanting this tax imposed.

MPs are the people's representatives - they are not elected to be dictators.

If Gillard was my lawyer, I would fire her for not following my instructions. Democracy is the same principle.

 

[So_Cynical]

We will be down $700 pa according to that calculator. Typical.

$303 per year better off for me.

 

[McLovin]

Rubbish.

JH took his GST backflip to the people by way of election.

You're correct. My apologies.

 

[Eager]

So, the flood levy is to get people being used to not having some money they've earned?

That's despicable. Working Aussies are already paying taxes and none of this pinching more money from their wallets was necessary and democracy has not been honoured, imo.

Gillard could have cut some of the wasteful spending to pay for the flood damage, but it looks like it was part of the conditioning plan, now that you've pointed it out.

Shame on the lack of democracy.

I was previously criticised by Julia for using spin when all I did was point out a fact, but by comparison the overwhelming amount of negative spin that consists of fearmongering, wild accusations and utter bullsh!t around here seems to be acceptable! :screwy:

sails, you have come to the conclusion that the flood levy was used as a conditioning plan. That's what I call despicable. :disgust:

 

[JTLP]

I don't see how 3 questions determines so much?

Anyway - i'll be worse off - which is laughable as I live by myself and don't exactly earn a packet...

 

[So_Cynical]

I was previously criticised by Julia for using spin when all I did was point out a fact, but by comparison the overwhelming amount of negative spin that consists of fearmongering, wild accusations and utter bullsh!t around here seems to be acceptable! :screwy:

sails, you have come to the conclusion that the flood levy was used as a conditioning plan. That's what I call despicable. :disgust:

As has been stated by others...this forum is dominated by the right, some further right than others, some you can talk sense to, most not....i highly recommend the ignore function as an alternative to banging your head against the brick wall of fear, misinformation and negative spin of the ASF right and its lackeys.

 

[sails]

...sails, you have come to the conclusion that the flood levy was used as a conditioning plan. That's what I call despicable. :disgust:

Eager, I wouldn't have thought of it, but at least a couple of times now you have suggested that, because of losing the flood levy, carbon tax will take it's place.

It was you that suggested it and the way you worded it came across like the levy was was being used to condition workers into being without the money.

When labor went to the last election, it was to get a mandate for no carbon tax and there was nothing about it passing on levies should there be natural disasters.

The whole thing is despicable.

 

[Eager]

I never suggested conditioning!!!! if you came to the wrong conclusion, well, I can't help that. It was never meant to be as such.

Everyone seems to think that they will be x amount of $ worse off, but they continually fail to realise how much they will save by no longer having to pay the flood levy.

Forget about politics; it's just mathematics!!!!!!!!!

 

[Eager]

As has been stated by others...this forum is dominated by the right, some further right than others, some you can talk sense to, most not....i highly recommend the ignore function as an alternative to banging your head against the brick wall of fear, misinformation and negative spin of the ASF right and its lackeys.

Like!

If nothing else, I can have fun attempting to bring a bit of balance to this place. All the pigeon holed right wing, white collar shiny bum, money hungry Chicken Littles around here must think it is absolutely abhorrent that a blue collar left leaning bloke has actually got enough brains to consistently make money out of shares, and spoil their party to boot!

 

[sails]

I never suggested conditioning!!!! if you came to the wrong conclusion, well, I can't help that. It was never meant to be as such.

Everyone seems to think that they will be x amount of $ worse off, but they continually fail to realise how much they will save by no longer having to pay the flood levy.

Forget about politics; it's just mathematics!!!!!!!!!

Your logic is flawed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The levy shouldn't have been there either !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Labor don't even spin well...

 

[sails]

Like!

If nothing else, I can have fun attempting to bring a bit of balance to this place. All the pigeon holed right wing, white collar shiny bum, money hungry Chicken Littles around here must think it is absolutely abhorrent that a blue collar left leaning bloke has actually got enough brains to consistently make money out of shares, and spoil their party to boot!

Supporting this government you are in the minority. Get over it...

 

[Julia]

Because governments make decisions all the time which many people don't like or agree with. How could you run a country if every policy decision made had to pass the approval of all the voters immediately?

Of course that wouldn't be practical. But you're totally ignoring the essential fact that Gillard stated categorically during the election campaign that there would be "No Carbon Tax under the government I lead", and many people voted for her on that basis. Then, as we all know, she did a complete about turn on the instruction of the Greens who made it a condition of letting her govern, and decided we would have a carbon tax.

I don't believe for a moment that you can't see what a betrayal this is, or why the electorate so largely feels angry with her.

Your own credibility would be enhanced if you'd just acknowledge this inescapable fact.

Meh, every government does it, that's the way the system works. The idea is to do it early enough in the term that by the time the next election comes around the population has been pork barreled into submission or just doesn't remember it. JH was just as disingenous in the '98 election campaign about the GST being "dead and buried" as JG has been. Of course at least with JH you kind of had some idea what he stood for rather than the current PM who just flaps in the breeze of focus group opinion.

Good to see you've subsequently corrected yourself here, McLovin. If Ms Gillard had gone to an election with the carbon tax, and received electorate endorsement for it, then those of us who don't want it would just have to suck it up.

Oh FFS, why can't you take my post at face value? Do you always regard the truth as spin?

Because you have put forward spin.
It is spin because, as I have already said, if the government had been managing its finances properly instead of wasting huge amounts of taxpayer funds, they would have been able to supply funds relief without imposing yet another levy on the population.

To suggest we should feel all warm and fuzzy about the carbon tax just because the flood levy will shortly end is an example of either disconnected thinking or a determination to present the carbon tax dishonestly in a favourable light.

At the end of the day it is a matter of dollars and cents in your pocket, agreed?

No. Not agreed at all.
For many of us the actual dollars and cents are a secondary consideration to the utter nonsense that sees Australia imposing a tax which will render many of our industries non-competitive for no measurable outcome on climate.

If the rest of the world were moving in alignment and our trading competitors were not being given therefore an advantage, that might be a different story.

Forget about politics; it's just mathematics!!!!!!!!!

This is where you completely miss the point made by many, i.e. that the whole carbon tax is a political move to satisfy the Greens. Ms Gillard before the election was part of the ousting of Kevin Rudd on the basis that the proposed ETS should be shelved indefinitely.

Then, whacko, the Greens say "hey Julia, we'll allow you to take government if you introduce a carbon tax". OK, says Julia, anything you say to allow me to be Prime Minister, and thus it has remained ever since.

To say it's about dollars and cents, and not politics is total nonsense.

 

[McLovin]

As has been stated by others...this forum is dominated by the right, some further right than others, some you can talk sense to, most not....i highly recommend the ignore function as an alternative to banging your head against the brick wall of fear, misinformation and negative spin of the ASF right and its lackeys.

I agree, except rather than ignore you can just treat it for what it is, an anonymous IBB and not take it too seriously.

Some (most) of the posters on here make Alan Jones look like Karl Marx. It's good for a chuckle. There's also a remarkably high number of conspiracy theorists.

 

[drsmith]

Everyone seems to think that they will be x amount of $ worse off, but they continually fail to realise how much they will save by no longer having to pay the flood levy.

Forget about politics; it's just mathematics!!!!!!!!!

Everyone aye!

Not a good outcome for Labor.

The mathematics is that we are worse off compared to the policy position put by Labor at the last election.

When introduced, the impact of the flood levy was intended to be temporary regardless of any carbon tax, or are you saying otherwise ?

Can you explain where the money comes from to support the carbon tax related tax cuts when billions of Australian dollars are exported overseas after it becomes a trading scheme ?

$303 per year better off for me.

What about as the rate goes up and up and and it's expanded, for example, to include fuel on heavy transport ?

??