Pornography

[Julia]

When a pair of loony left wing-nuts like Manne and Hamilton are against something, I would be very suspicious of their motives. They also oppose freedom of the press. Perhaps book burning will be next on their agenda.

That was my immediate reaction also. Neither Manne nor Hamilton have any acquaintance with objectivity about anything.

But then I thought about the principle of the prevalence of extreme and violent pornography becoming accepted as 'normal' and (with my heart in my mouth, I admit) decided to canvas the views of the wide range of people on this forum.

Back to Manne and Hamilton: I'd be more interested in the professional view of e.g. psychiatrists treating people who have been involved in either making or obsessive viewing of violent/extreme pr0n. I'm not sure what gives either Manne or Hamilton the cloak of expertise in this area.

 

[Julia]

In hindsight her show was completely over the top. Between telling her life story. She invited audience members to bring cameras to the show and take photos of themselves between her huge t1ts - yeah that's me below. She invited them to inspect her vagina with a torch, while it was opened wide with a speculum. At intermission she sold tit prints in the foyer. The show climaxed when everyone in the theater were handed sealed paper cups with a bit of rice in it to shake while she would masturbate and orgasm live on stage. I can't see a show like that ever being performed in Theatres in Australia now.

Hopefully not. From your description it sounds simply gross, rather than erotic.

I find it sad that the real ugly stuff has managed to get lumped in with the beautiful stuff that is known as pr0n.

I don't think it is all being lumped together. Rather that what once was found to be erotic by most viewers is now being dismissed in favour of extremely violent and probably largely unrealistic sexual behaviour.

No one has addressed the suggestion made by the ABC commentator that the viewing of extreme pornography debases the viewer as much as those involved in the making of it. Does this seem valid to you? Or is it a moralistic criticism with no genuine basis?

 

[LifeChoices]

No one has addressed the suggestion made by the ABC commentator that the viewing of extreme pornography debases the viewer as much as those involved in the making of it. Does this seem valid to you? Or is it a moralistic criticism with no genuine basis?

Ok, I'll have a crack.

Why do they assume the people making pornography are debased?

I think there are far more debased people, who hold high positions in the media, politics and banking.

Hopefully not. From your description it sounds simply gross, rather than erotic.

It was presented as an arts event in legitimate theaters around the country. It wasn't supposed to be erotic, it was provocative - makes you think.

 

[disarray]

No one has addressed the suggestion made by the ABC commentator that the viewing of extreme pornography debases the viewer as much as those involved in the making of it. Does this seem valid to you? Or is it a moralistic criticism with no genuine basis?

the ABC commentator can take their moral judgement and shove it up their ar$e. on film. for money.

 

[sptrawler]

Jee wiz Julia you have certainly added zing to the forum, well done.

 

[So_Cynical]

This topic is a bit close to me.

A very long time ago, before the internet and before I had children. In my mid twenty's I took a very big risk that paid off extremely well.

I brought American performance artist Annie Sprinkle for a theater tour of Australia. She was part of the Adelaide festival and then went on to tour all Australian capitals.

The show was extremely controversial, it was almost shut down in Melbourne during it's season at the Atheneum Theatre - 3AW went nuts. She was the star of numerous hard core sex films in the 70s and documented everything. She explored sexuality, pr0n in all it's forms and produced a one woman show about her life and experiences with pornography.

In hindsight her show was completely over the top. Between telling her life story. She invited audience members to bring cameras to the show and take photos of themselves between her huge t1ts - yeah that's me below. She invited them to inspect her vagina with a torch, while it was opened wide with a speculum. At intermission she sold tit prints in the foyer. The show climaxed when everyone in the theater were handed sealed paper cups with a bit of rice in it to shake while she would masturbate and orgasm live on stage. I can't see a show like that ever being performed in Theatres in Australia now.

I will never forget seeing my father face leaving the theatre - he was white.

I love Annie Sprinkle. I think debates like Julia described just work to shut down some of our natural human side. I find it sad that the real ugly stuff has managed to get lumped in with the beautiful stuff that is known as pr0n.

We need more Annie Sprinkles in this world.

Excellent...i have a whole new respect for you.

I remember that tour and also remember seeing a doco with exerts from that show, and with bits and pieces about Annie's life etc...i clearly remember a man friend of hers appearing in that doco that had a sex change (i think) and used a stainless steel rod inserted into his surgically created penis to simulate a functional erection.

He didn't get wood...he got steel.

Annie and her friends came across as very genuine and likeable people.

 

[basilio]

Bravo Life Choices !! Anne Sprinkle was/is a marvel. I loved her enthusiasm for sexuality and fun. It was extreme sexual theatre and certainly made one think about taking the personal into the public. But I'm equally sure she isn't a fan of gonzo pr0n.

There is no way I am a prude sexually and I certainly havn't lived under a bush. Sexuality is vibrant and can be outrageous, exhilarating and hopefully loving.

But that isn't where Julia started this discussion.

The question that was raised on the ABC show was not about the Annie Sprinkles or Playboy centerfolds of this world. It questioned the debasement of sex to an uglier and darker set of behaviors that is violent, abusive and deeply hurts the participants - both actors and viewers. The argument - and I suggest reality - is that these acts are debasing our community and as a community we should recognise this fact and take action.

But at the same time we want to respect peoples individual freedoms. It's a challenging call isn't it ?

_________________________________________________________________________

Annie Sprinkles story deserves a look. It's a doozy !

http://anniesprinkle.org/about-annie/the-sprinkle-story/

 

[LostMyShirt]

No one has addressed the suggestion made by the ABC commentator that the viewing of extreme pornography debases the viewer as much as those involved in the making of it. Does this seem valid to you? Or is it a moralistic criticism with no genuine basis?

Of-course it has a genuine basis, and though it is "moralistic criticism", it is criticism well directed.

Although I do agree with freedoms, I do not believe any and all appetites should be endeavored to be satisfied. If we appease the cravings of all men and women, it would destroy us. Above all; I believe certain appetites are created through means such as these.

The question is; where do we stop? There are many materials refused classification within these shores, whose classification laws have been referred to by an adult store owner I know as "archaic".

The desensitization of young folk at an early age may very well develop into abnormal sexual behavior in their adult years.

 

[McLovin]

maybe they are drug addicted. maybe they were molested as children. that is terrible, but there's plenty of people out there who were addicted to drugs, molested as children, or thrust into bad situations not of their own making, but chose to educate themselves, work hard, and succeed without being prostitutes.

Exactly. It's just like the poor, if only they worked a little harder they wouldn't be poor!

 

[medicowallet]

Exactly. It's just like the poor, if only they worked a little harder they wouldn't be poor!

Society is a wonderful thing.

Standards are always judged on todays expectations, as opposed to yesterdays.

For example "poor" today is quite different to "poor" in the thirties.


Just like sex is different.

So as long as we are progressing then we are doing great. eg 200 years ago the attitude towards "whhores" was a lot different than today with brothels/sex workers, that, now there is a huge improvement.

This is where the problem lies. pr0n is fine, but it is one of the few things de-evolving. There will always be a market (and should always be) for good quality, pornography that respects its actors, and shows responsibility towards its viewers.

This is where the imbalance lies, and yes, personal choice is something, but there has to be some sort of standard that is acceptable, and currently standards are questionable, and NEED to be questioned.

MW

 

[disarray]

Exactly. It's just like the poor, if only they worked a little harder they wouldn't be poor!

here's a bandaid for that bleeding heart of yours

 

[McLovin]

This is where the problem lies. pr0n is fine, but it is one of the few things de-evolving. There will always be a market (and should always be) for good quality, pornography that respects its actors, and shows responsibility towards its viewers.

This is where the imbalance lies, and yes, personal choice is something, but there has to be some sort of standard that is acceptable, and currently standards are questionable, and NEED to be questioned.

I agree, there's nothing wrong with pr0n. I do draw the line at exploiting someone even though it may consent. There's a website Bumfights that pays homeless men with alcohol and money to fight eachother and do stupid stunts, it's clearly exploiting those people it films and I tend to see some of the really hardcore pr0n in the same way.

 

[Calliope]

Back to Manne and Hamilton: I'd be more interested in the professional view of e.g. psychiatrists treating people who have been involved in either making or obsessive viewing of violent/extreme pr0n. I'm not sure what gives either Manne or Hamilton the cloak of expertise in this area.

This is some of Manne's expertise.

 

[Julia]

Exactly. It's just like the poor, if only they worked a little harder they wouldn't be poor!

Not necessarily. We all have different capacities in terms of intellectual, psychological and physical attributes. Without being unkind about it, some people are simply inadequate. Probably a topic for another thread of its own.

 

[wayneL]

Not necessarily. We all have different capacities in terms of intellectual, psychological and physical attributes. Without being unkind about it, some people are simply inadequate. Probably a topic for another thread of its own.

Exactly.

And when you think about it, the comment you refer to is sort of socialist in an @rse about way... ie we can all be rich if we work hard enough (instead of we should all be poor and work for the benefit of all).

Pfffttt bullshyte. It's not how the world works.

Even pr0n works like capitalism... only guys with 12" dicks get a job... only ladies guys would fancy laying get a job. It's MILF, not MIWLF. (Just trying to stay on topic folks ).

Same in the real world.

Pornography is the perfect model for capitalism. :

PS if none of the above makes sense, it's because I'm 3 sheets to the wind on Hawkes Bay vino locale. :::

 

[McLovin]

Not necessarily. We all have different capacities in terms of intellectual, psychological and physical attributes. Without being unkind about it, some people are simply inadequate. Probably a topic for another thread of its own.

Of course that's true. But social mobility (or the lack of it) is a real thing ie you are extremely likely to die in the class you were born into. Thankfully I wasn't born poor.

And when you think about it, the comment you refer to is sort of socialist in an @rse about way... ie we can all be rich if we work hard enough (instead of we should all be poor and work for the benefit of all).

Not really. It was an observation that people can be poor because of circumstances beyond their control. Nature v nurture etc.

 

[Smurf1976]

I have noting against pr0n depicting normal sexual acts. But exploitation of those who have little real choice is an entirely different story and just not on in my opinion. There are many desperate people in this world, and it's simply wrong from a moral perspective to exploit them.

Generally speaking, I'd consider myself a libertarian and against unnecessary rules and regulations. But I also have a conscience and let's just say don't mention those &^%$#@! pokies around me. I've never been into them, but I have no doubt whatsoever that they are deliberately designed and located so as to exploit the poor, uneducated, lonely and other vulnerable persons.

Freedom certainly. But deliberate exploitation of others is morally very, very wrong as far as I'm concerned whether through pr0n, pokies or anything else.

 

[orr]

This is a link to recent a panel discussion by four people, Kate Holden being one, with an intimate and or highly evolved relationship to subject. Aspects of the discussion aren't particularly well moderated but important research on internet hits offered up and are well worth thinking about considering who's making them and their current position in society and what effect may be the consequence.

http://www.themonthly.com.au/pr0n-wars-dines-cannold-holden-lumby-3386

 

[Knobby22]

Read in the magazine "New Scientist" this morning that child pr0n of the worst sort is now heavily involved with criminal gangs and has quadrupled over the last 5 years despite heavy arrests of creators and buyers.

I think this is where some pr0n addicts go when they find normal pr0n doesn't excite anymore as they search for depravity.

It makes me feel sick to think about it. I don't know what the answer is.

 

[pavilion103]

I feel sorry for people who look at pr0n tbh. It's kinda degrading for the person viewing.

Obviously they are not getting what they feel they need from a real person.

I don't say this as a smart **** but this is how I genuinely feel and I hope they are able to find a real life relationship that meets their needs.