Pornography

[satanoperca]

http://www.shelleylubben.com/pornstars

http://www.shelleylubben.com/dead-pr0n-stars

Those links are really depressing. Actually the whole thread is really depressing.

After working in a Muslim country for many years (i'm not muslim) the one thing that I really enjoyed was the lack of sexual images in public.

When my 4 year old son started referring to woman on the tv as sexy women as started to wonder if the sexualisation of women had gone to far.

I for one don't mind erotic pr0n, actually enjoy watching it from time to time, but it is hard to find. I do not find some 12inch monster **** being rammed into some tiny little woman exciting or thrilling at any level. The thought of what seems to be the latest fad, anal and even worse anal to mouth is just pushing it to far. What is next, beastiality being acceptable. We are distroying our youth by allowing easy access to hardcore pr0n.

Cheers

 

[satanoperca]

but reading through the above site, how do you stop the abuse

The United States adult film industry produces 4,000–11,000 films a year and earns an estimated $9–$13 billion in gross revenues annually. An estimated 200 production companies employ 1,200–1,500 performers. Performers typically earn $400–$1,000 per shoot and are not compensated based on distribution or sales.

It is not a small business.

Cheers

 

[prawn_86]

I dont disagree that a lot of pr0n stars/table dancer/strippers are 'groomed' due to circumstances etc but i am a firm believer that if someone really dislikes or disagrees with something, they will find a way to get out of it (same as a drug addict getting clean)

The demand is obviously there, so in a free economy supply should meet demand...

 

[LostMyShirt]

I dont disagree that a lot of pr0n stars/table dancer/strippers are 'groomed' due to circumstances etc but i am a firm believer that if someone really dislikes or disagrees with something, they will find a way to get out of it (same as a drug addict getting clean)

The demand is obviously there, so in a free economy supply should meet demand...

That is incorrect and purely a comment made in hindsight.

The opperunity is there for the desperate - extremely desperate. They are not treated as human beings - rather as tools of the trade. They are not compensated as well as they should, and not given the benifits of a worker.

The performers use drugs and alchohol in order to reduce the stress and traumatic experiences. How you can count this industry as a welcome addition I will never know.

What ever happened to the beautiful playboy spreads? The image of an obviously and exceptionaly beautiful woman who certainly has the goods, treated as a model and not a toy. I know what happened; it was destroyed by the ever increasing appetite of unconventional sexualy activity.

If the demand for this industry revolves around exceptionaly unorthadox material - then the industry is there to appease the appetites of the sick.

I walked into a Brothel once with a few mates. The girls were parades in the lobby in order for you to pick which one you would have for the evening. I'm not a prude - but when I saw the faces, and looked deep ino the eyes of those people, deep into their soul, I had to leave - I felt their shame. I had a nice smoko outside, and never returned to that place again.

 

[basilio]

I dont disagree that a lot of pr0n stars/table dancer/strippers are 'groomed' due to circumstances etc but i am a firm believer that if someone really dislikes or disagrees with something, they will find a way to get out of it (same as a drug addict getting clean)

The demand is obviously there, so in a free economy supply should meet demand...

And this is where Julia started this thread Prawn. Should we allow the marketplace to totally dictate what is produced or do Governments as our representatives decide some demands are too destructive to allow industries to be developed to meet them ?

The classic case is hard drugs. We have already talked about child pornography. In some places and at some times people believed poker machines were just clever ways to entice people to empty their wallets into the machines. So they were banned. (Think Victoria until 1990s)

Of course in a neo liberal economy the business view prevails that people should be free to make up their own minds and that as responsible human beings no one is going to allow themselves to be enslaved by something as silly as a poker machine.... (not unless we can help it of course .!)

Perhaps this discussion is asking the same question about unrestricted availability of hard core pornography and the overt sexualisation of the media and public spaces.

 

[McLovin]

I dont disagree that a lot of pr0n stars/table dancer/strippers are 'groomed' due to circumstances etc but i am a firm believer that if someone really dislikes or disagrees with something, they will find a way to get out of it (same as a drug addict getting clean)

How many drug addicts have you known? I mean real drug addicts not people who don't mind a line on a Friday night.

The demand is obviously there, so in a free economy supply should meet demand...

If that's where the bar is set, then let's start a sex trafficking business, you can make tonnes of money and there's definately supply.

 

[prawn_86]

How many drug addicts have you known? I mean real drug addicts not people who don't mind a line on a Friday night.

If that's where the bar is set, then let's start a sex trafficking business, you can make tonnes of money and there's definately supply.

I have known a couple of full blown addicts. One has got clean, the other hasnt. I never said it was easy, but the human mind can accomplish amazing feats if it truly wants/needs to.

I think there needs to be basic human rights (as i mentioned in my 1st post on this thread); sex trafficking wouldn't be consenting adults. Staying on topic, most of these pr0n stars do earn money from their job, and therefore have the means to get away from it if they really wanted to.

 

[Julia]

What is the difference between gratuitous violence and gratuitous sex?

Why does one have a free rein and not the other?

Why does one make us worry (on an official level) about the moral fabric of society and not the other?

Just asking.

Wayne, I'm not sure that we don't worry about gratuitous violence. It has, however, become so ubiquitous that we perhaps are coming to regard it as 'normal', with consequent results in reality.

Some posters have here posed the suggestion that the similar 'normalisation' of increasingly aggressive and abusive pr0n could likewise be pushing many young people into sexual activity they feel pressured to engage in.

I dont disagree that a lot of pr0n stars/table dancer/strippers are 'groomed' due to circumstances etc but i am a firm believer that if someone really dislikes or disagrees with something, they will find a way to get out of it (same as a drug addict getting clean)

The demand is obviously there, so in a free economy supply should meet demand...

That seems logical enough for those of us who do favour a free economy, and - on the precedent I've previously advocated of being totally against restricting access to pokies a la Andrew Wilkie - I'd have to agree. But I can't ignore a sense of concern about really violent pr0n being available to young people who are still immature and vulnerable to thinking they'll not be accepted by their peer group unless they do whatever some horny young bloke tells them.

And this is where Julia started this thread Prawn. Should we allow the marketplace to totally dictate what is produced or do Governments as our representatives decide some demands are too destructive to allow industries to be developed to meet them ?

The classic case is hard drugs. We have already talked about child pornography. In some places and at some times people believed poker machines were just clever ways to entice people to empty their wallets into the machines. So they were banned. (Think Victoria until 1990s)

Of course in a neo liberal economy the business view prevails that people should be free to make up their own minds and that as responsible human beings no one is going to allow themselves to be enslaved by something as silly as a poker machine.... (not unless we can help it of course .!)

Perhaps this discussion is asking the same question about unrestricted availability of hard core pornography and the overt sexualisation of the media and public spaces.

To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what I was asking, but your post above probably gets it pretty right.

And herewith my appreciation for people responding with genuine views and avoiding the sort of cheap innuendo filled remarks I feared.

 

[McLovin]

I never said it was easy, but the human mind can accomplish amazing feats if it truly wants/needs to.

The human mind is also human. For some people kicking addiction is near on impossible because of their wiring.

I think there needs to be basic human rights (as i mentioned in my 1st post on this thread); sex trafficking wouldn't be consenting adults.

Sure it would, they don't drag those girls kicking and screaming across the border, they usually go willingly. It's only after they arrive they're given the bad news, however you can just tell them they either have to make their own way home or they can work for you on minimum wage until they can afford to get home. No human rights broken, free to leave at any time. You could easily make the argument they were coerced or "groomed", but that's not an issue apparently...

I dont disagree that a lot of pr0n stars/table dancer/strippers are 'groomed' due to circumstances etc but i am a firm believer that if someone really dislikes or disagrees with something, they will find a way to get out of it

 

[prawn_86]

That seems logical enough for those of us who do favour a free economy, and - on the precedent I've previously advocated of being totally against restricting access to pokies a la Andrew Wilkie - I'd have to agree. But I can't ignore a sense of concern about really violent pr0n being available to young people who are still immature and vulnerable to thinking they'll not be accepted by their peer group unless they do whatever some horny young bloke tells them.

I think the bolded is probably my biggest apprehension about the whole issue. I am young enough to have grown up with access to it online and hence it has helped shape mine (and my generations) expectations and views of sex.

I think parents need to properly educate their children with respect to what is 'normal' and that a lot of pr0n is just 'for show' so to speak and doesnt actually occur in the bedroom, however i know this is easier said than done when it come to talking to teenage children

 

[bandicoot76]

i believe the pr0n issue is like anything else... in moderation its fine... its when it starts getting pushed to the extremes that you start getting serious problems!

its abit like a playboy centrefold girl being compared to a snuff film... both classed as pr0n but where one is acceptable the other certainly isnt and lets hope never will be!

 

[Calliope]

This evening I heard part of an ABC Radio interview with someone from the ABC Religion and Ethics Department. This person was quoting Robert Manne and Clive Hamilton whom he said had been speaking out against the pr0n industry.

When a pair of loony left wing-nuts like Manne and Hamilton are against something, I would be very suspicious of their motives. They also oppose freedom of the press. Perhaps book burning will be next on their agenda.

 

[basilio]

But, Calliope , what do you think about the issue of the widespread production and viewing of extreme pornography ? Do you think it's a problem for individuals and the broader community ?

If it is a problem what do you think we should consider doing ? ( And I agree - there are no simple easy answers to that question.)

 

[prawn_86]

But, Calliope , what do you think about the issue of the widespread production and viewing of extreme pornography ? Do you think it's a problem for individuals and the broader community ?

If it is a problem what do you think we should consider doing ? ( And I agree - there are no simple easy answers to that question.)

I really don't think there is a widespread viewing of extreme pr0n, most people just view typical 'vanilla' pr0n so to speak.

The link below has some interesting (albeit out of date) stats. As you can see "Group Sex" and "XXX" are 10th and 12th respectively by amount of searches conducted, so the vast majority of searches are just seeking 'standard' pr0n.

"Hardcore" titles released have also increased significantly, but one could argue that this is due to more poeple now having internet access then they did 20 yrs ago, so more people able to satisfy their specific desires.

http://internet-filter-review.toptenreviews.com/internet-pornography-statistics.html

 

[LifeChoices]

This topic is a bit close to me.

A very long time ago, before the internet and before I had children. In my mid twenty's I took a very big risk that paid off extremely well.

I brought American performance artist Annie Sprinkle for a theater tour of Australia. She was part of the Adelaide festival and then went on to tour all Australian capitals.

The show was extremely controversial, it was almost shut down in Melbourne during it's season at the Atheneum Theatre - 3AW went nuts. She was the star of numerous hard core sex films in the 70s and documented everything. She explored sexuality, pr0n in all it's forms and produced a one woman show about her life and experiences with pornography.

In hindsight her show was completely over the top. Between telling her life story. She invited audience members to bring cameras to the show and take photos of themselves between her huge t1ts - yeah that's me below. She invited them to inspect her vagina with a torch, while it was opened wide with a speculum. At intermission she sold tit prints in the foyer. The show climaxed when everyone in the theater were handed sealed paper cups with a bit of rice in it to shake while she would masturbate and orgasm live on stage. I can't see a show like that ever being performed in Theatres in Australia now.

I will never forget seeing my father face leaving the theatre - he was white.

I love Annie Sprinkle. I think debates like Julia described just work to shut down some of our natural human side. I find it sad that the real ugly stuff has managed to get lumped in with the beautiful stuff that is known as pr0n.

We need more Annie Sprinkles in this world.

 

[sptrawler]

Thanks for sharing, we are all richer for the knowledge.

 

[disarray]

people are responsible for their own choices. if someone chooses to get reamed on camera for cash then its (usually) their choice.

maybe they are drug addicted. maybe they were molested as children. that is terrible, but there's plenty of people out there who were addicted to drugs, molested as children, or thrust into bad situations not of their own making, but chose to educate themselves, work hard, and succeed without being prostitutes.

i'm with prawn, let the market decide. humans are a commodity, we always have been, we always will be. if people choose to be wh0res, that's their choice. the only time the state should intervene is in cases of sexual slavery by coercion or when children are involved.

 

[Wysiwyg]

We need more Annie Sprinkles in this world.

Haven't you been grocery shopping recently? Plenty of bush pigs out there.

 

[LifeChoices]

Thanks for sharing, we are all richer for the knowledge.

hahaha, I guess I did get a bit carried away.

You know, I've got this other really good idea. I want to open a European style micro bar that can fit 5 people max. I will only serve Gin and Beer. I want to call this bar Life Choices.

Wysiwyg - I think about two weeks ago I took you off my ignore list after those dreadful comments you made about animials - bye buddy.

 

[Wysiwyg]

In reply to Julias thread opener, I think pornography should be about the body beautiful. From 18 to 30 ish is the age for the body beautiful to be admired and enjoyed while the form is firm and true. When the sagging and wrinkles appear, the admiration and desire of form fades away.

Young Turks -- Rod Stewart

They held each other tight
As they drove on through the night, they were so exited
We got but one shot of life
Let's take it while we're still not afraid

Because life is so brief
And time is a thief, when you're undecided
And like a fistful of sand
It can slip right through your hands