Oslo Bombed, Children Massacred

[moXJO]

Good point,

worth going away for a few days; you stirrer

The heated arguments bring out some funny comments amongst the posters. Often brings a giggle.

ASF is kill time in-between a mountain of bookkeeping I've been stuck doing the last two weeks.

 

[wayneL]

Plod, you can't be taken seriously, the left is more than you.

Certainly there are many of the left who will of course feel like most of us.

However you cannot reasonably deny that the incident has been used to score cheap and nasty political points.

But not withstanding that I accept that what you say your feelings are is true, you still used it in this very thread to try to get a run on the board and break your duck. IF chimed in and turned it into something nasty. And you two are just a microcosm of the broader left.

Once again, hoist by your own petard.

 

[explod]

Plod, you can't be taken seriously, the left is more than you.

Certainly there are many of the left who will of course feel like most of us.

However you cannot reasonably deny that the incident has been used to score cheap and nasty political points.

But not withstanding that I accept that what you say your feelings are is true, you still used it in this very thread to try to get a run on the board and break your duck. IF chimed in and turned it into something nasty. And you two are just a microcosm of the broader left.

Once again, hoist by your own petard.

Of course and as you may be in your particular belief too. Respect for all sides and views (even rants) need to be sifted in our search to try and make things better. And you do, on reflection, do that well.

and on rolleyes

 

[sails]

...However dwelling on that point in the clear light of day may well cloud one from looking and trying to understand why it occurred in the first place. Why wont the world ask the questions to try to solve them. And they are deep seated social questions which can only be answered by research and education in these spheres.

Explod, my apologies if I offended you. I have seen this elsewhere including the media where some from the left appeared to be hanging off every word in the manifesto of this severely disturbed psychopathic creature and using it as an excuse to make accusations that the right are also somehow just as dangerous.

The vast majority of normal people from all walks of politics would not take the life of another, let alone innocent children, purely over politics. I think people who do this are either severely psychopathic and they incite themselves with their own delusions OR they are trained as children/young people to kill as we see in some of the jihad type camps.

How does one ever understand what goes in the head of a psychopath? I don't think it is possible to draw any sane conclusions from someone as deeply disturbed and anti-social as this killer and his written words should surely only be of interest to criminal psychiatrists and police.

It is certainly unfair to hold any other normal human being culpable in any way just because this deluded monster decides to mention them in his sick writings. I have heard he also mentions feminists - are they also now considered somehow at risk of murdering children? I don't think so by a country mile.

I think the left who have used this as political point scoring need to settle down and get a grip on life.

 

[explod]

Explod, my apologies if I offended you. I have seen this elsewhere including the media where some from the left appeared to be hanging off every word in the manifesto of this severely disturbed psychopathic creature and using it as an excuse to make accusations that the right are also somehow just as dangerous.

sails, you could never offend me. I love the free and lively debates and I do suffer from "foot and mouth", highly strung and over eager.


But thanks for the thought.

 

[Julia]

sails, you could never offend me. I love the free and lively debates and I do suffer from "foot and mouth", highly strung and over eager.


But thanks for the thought.

Ah, explod, it's posts like the above that make me feel bad for cynically dismissing your idealistic take on life.

You're one of the few people I know who is genuinely motivated by believing it's possible that the world will become a better place. I hope you're right.
In the meantime, probably some of us could learn something from your capacity to see the best everywhere.

 

[wayneL]

Let's all hold hands and say OMMMMMMM

I have no doubt that many rank and file Greens are sincere and I'm sure Plod is also, but it's a bit like the Catholic Church. I know many very sincere and lovely Catholics, but it does not change the sins of the organization as a whole.

Likewise, what the Greens stand for politically is a putrid version of totalitarian socialism and any supporter of the Greens by default, stands for the same.

As a liberal/libertarian, I cannot absolve even sincere Green Party supporters of this.

 

[IFocus]

And you still don't get that you have crossed the line.

I do get it and you are absolutely right I have crossed the line following your lead and sincerely regret it.

Its certainly not a area for growth and going by you reply's quite poisonous psychologically.

Don't know how you do it day in day out all your criticism, labeling and insinuations must surely weigh you down.

 

[wayneL]

I do get it and you are absolutely right I have crossed the line following your lead and sincerely regret it.

Its certainly not a area for growth and going by you reply's quite poisonous psychologically.

Don't know how you do it day in day out all your criticism, labeling and insinuations must surely weigh you down.

No. Because I am on the side of liberty, what our forefathers fought for.

 

[IFocus]

No. Because I am on the side of liberty, what our forefathers fought for.

So back to the thread title some one in Norway felt the same way just a little bit more extreme.

 

[wayneL]

So back to the thread title some one in Norway felt the same way just a little bit more extreme.

Anyone willing to take some innocent persons liberty and/or life is not a liberal/libertarian.

 

[sails]

So back to the thread title some one in Norway felt the same way just a little bit more extreme.

IFocus, that's a very nasty and unnecessary insinuation, imo.

Please tell me how being on the side of "liberty" takes the lives of nearly 80 people and most of those being young people?

Frightened kids watching their friends being murdered, watching a ten year old begging for her life only to have her brains blown out? Terrified for their own lives and texting their parents thinking it might be the last text?

Do you really call this liberty? The psychopath ends up in prison - has he really achieved liberty? Get real.

If that is your view of liberty, I think you've lost track of perspective and reality...

Our forefathers fought for liberty and freedom - not this disgraceful twist of your so called "liberty". Sorry, but these are labor families who have been so aflicted and yet, as a so called labor supporter you have no sadness for these people? Instead you want to try and align normal, sane people who lean to the right politically with this madman? Go and join those from the right in grief and sadness at this horrific event.

It is only political because a deeply disturbed psychopath called it political. It is more of a psychiatric problem than the politics that became his deluded obsession.

Do you have any medical understanding whatsoever of severe psychiatric illness combined with obesessive compulsive disorders? It's the obsessiveness and compulsiveness that become all encompassing to people such as this killer and they use their often higher IQ for all the wrong, obsessed reasons.

Normal people do not take guns to anyone, let alone children.

 

[sails]

Anyone willing to take some innocent persons liberty and/or life is not a liberal/libertarian.

LOL Wayne. I use up a few paragraphs to express my disgust and you manage it in one sentence...

 

[sails]

sails, you could never offend me. I love the free and lively debates and I do suffer from "foot and mouth", highly strung and over eager.


But thanks for the thought.

No worries, explod...

 

[Julia]

Let's all hold hands and say OMMMMMMM

No. But I understand your mockery.

I have no doubt that many rank and file Greens are sincere and I'm sure Plod is also, but it's a bit like the Catholic Church. I know many very sincere and lovely Catholics, but it does not change the sins of the organization as a whole.

Likewise, what the Greens stand for politically is a putrid version of totalitarian socialism and any supporter of the Greens by default, stands for the same.

Again, I understand what you're saying, but I'll somewhat disagree.

If you were to be someone who feels passionately about, um, saving the planet, being kind to every living thing (even including filthy flying foxes) and has little comprehension of the necessity of a functional economy just to allow citizens to enjoy the most basic of services, then it's likely you're going to find voting for either of the two major parties (which certainly have not covered themselves in glory)
quite unacceptable. So you'll vote for the silly and very dangerous Greens, by default.

Because, as above, you have no understanding of the vital importance of Australia being able to trade competitively, you fail to get that the Greens don't have the first clue about managing an economy. And if by chance you have some inkling that the Greens are actually a totalitarian, socialist organisation, then you quite possibly think that's pretty damn OK because it's about time the world was fair to all those who have pretty much nothing while some seem to have too much.

No allowance is made for the fact that many of those who have nothing are in such a position because they have failed to get off their backsides, show some initiative, and work hard. It's still all good to keep supporting them financially and socially because, hell, that's how it should be.

So, shouldn't we allow these deluded but very kind hearted people the benefit of the doubt, sort of along the lines of that phrase from, I think, the Bible which goes something like :
"Forgive them for they know not what they do".

PS I'm not at all sure what has provoked my present magnanimous disposition. I don't expect it will last long.

 

[explod]

It is wonderful to be in Fairy Land Julia

I have had a few ideas (that's dangerous) overnight and hope to start a new thread on the lines of "The Greens and a New Left";

as this thread needs to remain on topic.

And need to respond to my ole Pal wayneL properly.

 

[Calliope]

It is wonderful to be in Fairy Land Julia

Just as I have long suspected...you are "away with the fairies."

 

[IFocus]

IFocus, that's a very nasty and unnecessary insinuation, imo.

Wasn't meant to be nasty, I wasn't trying to connect Wayne to the actions of a nutter, it was meant to show a disconnect of a belief and conscience.

A belief in liberty doesn't absolve one of bad behavior towards others on the site who turn up with different political view, at least I haven't seen that in Joe,s site commandments.

BTW I wouldn't think any one here would not believe in liberty, its certainly not defined by your political views or level social conscience.

My last word on the matter apologies to all for derailing the thread.

 

[sails]

Wasn't meant to be nasty, I wasn't trying to connect Wayne to the actions of a nutter, it was meant to show a disconnect of a belief and conscience....

It did come across as insinuationg somehow that this nutter's murderous acts were some how being interpreted as "liberty".

If normal people could be so easily incited to commit such horrific crimes, we would all be living in fear for our lives.

And, it's not only come from you IFocus, some of the media have sadly used it for political point scoring and trying to place some meaning to whatever this nutter has in his manifesto. It's not worth the paper it's written on except to professionals in criminology and psychiatry.

And the next nutter could just as easily be a labor one, however, there is no way I would think that normal left leaning voters were in any way implicated.

Agree, let's keep the topic on the situation in Norway without the rather sickening political insinuations that have no grounds, imo.

 

[explod]

It did come across as insinuationg somehow that this nutter's murderous acts were some how being interpreted as "liberty".

I have no doubt that this abhorrent mind had "Liberty" in his rambling manafesto. Far too often the press will pick up on just a word or two and it speads like wilfire and distorts exponentially.

Just like a message passed around the room, from white it will be black at the other end.