- Joined
- 21 June 2009
- Posts
- 5,880
- Reactions
- 14
ROFL ..... I would rather watch playschool instead. Your answer is not an answer NBNMyths. What a joke. 
NBN Rollout Scrapped
- Thread starter Garpal Gumnut
- Start date
a) I don't know exactly. NBN Co usually state the current number at estimates or committee hearings. At least 870 though, by my educated guess:
(Being made up of:
740 in Tassie announced as at end of May
96 in Armidale (7 at launch + 3 additions per week/ISP in the 8 weeks since launch (3x4x8)
2 in Willunga (Probably more, but no announcements made)
1 in Kiama (Probably more, but no announcements made)
Probably 20 satellite 1st release customers
Although only internode have publicly announced they have connected people in Willunga and Kiama, there are probably a few from each ISP in those locations. Also, NBN have announced that there are 15 ISPs who are going to participate in the trials, with each one allowed to connect a maximum of a few customers per week per site as they test the network and their own systems. Only 4 have been named as already participating, so we don't know if the others are as yet. There's a good chance at least a few of them have started by now, which would add more numbers.
In addition to the above, Fujitsu have been contracted to connect the 133,000 greenfield properties for which applications to connect have already been received from developers between January and May this year. Those services won't go live until people start moving in to those estates.
If you listen or read the hansard for the hearings when NBN give an update, you'll be able to find out progressive numbers.
b) No idea of cost to date, but you wouldn't be able to use that in any meaningful way anyway, because the cost to date is for a lot more than supply of those services to those customers. There would be a massive cost associated with the implementation of an entire network. eg, 3x datacentres already in operation which will serve the nationwide network, the exec and engineers designing and contracting for the network, contracts let for wireless and satellite, contracts for 2yrs of greenfield rollout let, contracts for 5yrs of fibre cable and associated hardware let, contracts for 4yrs of brownfields fibre construction in NSW, QLD and ACT let, software and hardware to run the company itself.....the list goes on. I think I read a few months back that NBN co have signed about $8.5bn in contracts so far, although most of that is paid progressively.
According to various reports, they have received $2bn in equity so far and the Govt said in the budget this year that they will inject another $3.1bn in 2011-12, increasing each year to a total of $18.2bn by 2014-15.
c) No idea, but I did read recently that 40% of NBN's Tasmanian connections were either 50 or 100Mbps speeds, so that might give some idea of what people are paying.
Connections at the mainland trial sites are currently free, so long as customers maintain their existing ADSL connections with their trial ISP. This will remain until the conclusion of the trial in a couple of months, after which they'll have to choose a plan and start paying (or return to ADSL).
Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
- Joined
- 2 January 2006
- Posts
- 13,699
- Reactions
- 10,313
As Sir Humphrey would say.
This is a rather "brave" prediction.
"They" the ALP/Green Government may not be about, to do anything, let alone spend our deficit on the NBN.
gg
Yes that's true, they may not be around. Quite a good chance actually, unless the next two years go spectacularly well for them.!
Problem for the coalition will be that the NBN will have billions in binding contracts signed by then, and a far higher portion of money spent than network complete, due to high ramping costs. There will also be numerous pieces of supporting legislation which they won't be able to repeal even if they still want to (which I hope they don't, of course).
Other massive issue will be the millions that all the ISPs will have spent installing, upgrading and implementing NBN-related systems. Imagine the uproar from them if they are forced to throw that investment away and do the same thing again for Broadband Plan 56,489 from the Coalition!
Not to mention the multi-year delay that would result from trying to stop, redesign and re-implement another totally new idea.
http://www.budde.com.au/News/#The-economic-cost-of-the-coalition’s-NBN-plan-could-cost-close-to-$10-billion
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,649
- Reactions
- 24,553
Yes that's true, they may not be around. Quite a good chance actually, unless the next two years go spectacularly well for them.!
Problem for the coalition will be that the NBN will have billions in binding contracts signed by then, and a far higher portion of money spent than network complete, due to high ramping costs. There will also be numerous pieces of supporting legislation which they won't be able to repeal even if they still want to (which I hope they don't, of course).
Other massive issue will be the millions that all the ISPs will have spent installing, upgrading and implementing NBN-related systems. Imagine the uproar from them if they are forced to throw that investment away and do the same thing again for Broadband Plan 56,489 from the Coalition!
Not to mention the multi-year delay that would result from trying to stop, redesign and re-implement another totally new idea.
http://www.budde.com.au/News/#The-economic-cost-of-the-coalition’s-NBN-plan-could-cost-close-to-$10-billion
Yes it's really sad stitching everyone up for something most don't want, there is a certain ideological arrogance to it. Very much like what is happening with the carbon tax.
It's a bit like a parent stitching up the family for a huge debt, if it all works out the family is wrapped, if it turns to ***** the family is on struggle street.
Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
- Joined
- 2 January 2006
- Posts
- 13,699
- Reactions
- 10,313
Problem for the coalition will be that the NBN will have billions in binding contracts signed by then, and a far higher portion of money spent than network complete, due to high ramping costs. There will also be numerous pieces of supporting legislation which they won't be able to repeal even if they still want to (which I hope they don't, of course).
Other massive issue will be the millions that all the ISPs will have spent installing, upgrading and implementing NBN-related systems. Imagine the uproar from them if they are forced to throw that investment away and do the same thing again for Broadband Plan 56,489 from the Coalition!
Not to mention the multi-year delay that would result from trying to stop, redesign and re-implement another totally new idea.
So you are saying that because a government wastes our surplus on an out of date technology, future generations should pay, on the whim of one party's brain fart!
gg
Couldn't have put it better myself.
gg
I wonder where you get that impression? There has never been a single conducted survey or poll that has shown that most people don't want the NBN.
To the contrary, public opinion is very strongly behind it.
There is the Swinburne University study, which found 76% support:
http://cci.edu.au/sites/default/files/sewing/CCi Digital Futures 2010 1.pdf
Then there have been several Essential Media polls which also showed strong support:
http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/importance-of-nbn/
http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/benefit-of-nbn/
http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/opinion-of-nbn-2/
If you only read News Ltd and listed to AM radio, you might have that impression. But out in the real world, it's quite the opposite.
If you'd like to supply evidence to the contrary, I welcome it.
Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
- Joined
- 2 January 2006
- Posts
- 13,699
- Reactions
- 10,313
Most people in the bush read News Ltd. or listen and watch News Ltd. outlets, or News Ltd. sentiment friendly outlets.
Nobody listens to the bush, you included mate, nor your smarmy polls.
Come an election we'll see who has listened.
gg
- Joined
- 28 October 2008
- Posts
- 8,609
- Reactions
- 39
It has my support,
as long as someone else pays for it.
as long as someone else pays for it.
- Joined
- 21 June 2009
- Posts
- 5,880
- Reactions
- 14
Seriously?
I thought people (Alan Jones aside) had finally accepted the fact that there is no technology known that can make optical fibre "out of date"? Even Alan has been quiet on the topic since the Laserbeam incident.
Doesn't it make you wonder why it's only the occasional journo and shock jock who makes this claim? Where are the engineers saying fibre is out of date? Where are all the telco companies saying fibre is out of date? Why are they out there all over the World installing either fibre or (cheaper) Fibre To The Node (FTTN) at their own cost?
The fact is that the GPON fibre system being run by the NBN is state-of-the-art. There is not a faster network being installed anywhere in the World. There are several countries and telcos rolling out the same technology.
Why isn't there a single country in the World proposing to replace their urban fixed networks with wireless if that is the future? Even wireless companies don't claim it can replace the fixed network in urban areas.
Do people really not understand that the capacity of fibre is virtually unlimited, and that once the expensive bit is done (burying it), the speeds of the NBN can be constantly increased. On current theory, the NBN fibre network could deliver 69Tbps in the future.
Even Malcolm Turnbull has stopped the wireless BS and moved on to promising FTTN, but only because it's potentially cheaper than FTTP rather than being better.
To be blunt, the only people claiming the NBN is out of date are clueless on the topic. There's simply no-one with any technical knowledge saying this.
Maybe it's time for a re-read:
http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/what-do-the-experts-say/
Again, feel free to provide a link to any telco engineer or telco company who thinks FTTP is out of date. Good luck with that.
You're kidding aren't you?
If someone asked me the question: "All else being equal, would you prefer a 4G wireless or the NBN fibre", I'd say 4G wireless too.
But then, all else isn't equal. Wireless is much more expensive than fibre, and it's much slower. It always has been, and it always will be. The fact is that the light spectrum can carry 20,000 times more bandwidth than the entire radio spectrum. That's a physical limit.
As I wrote in my last post, there's no telco engineers saying wireless can replace fixed in urban areas. It just can't cope with that volume of data.
There are already 4G networks running in the US and few European countries. Speeds are unimpressive, averaging under 10Mbps indoors.
Telstra have already said they don't expect their 4G wireless to be any cheaper than their 3G wireless, which is currently (at best) $90 for 12GB/month.
Now some relevant ABS stats:
Between Dec09 and Dec10, the total monthly data downloaded in Australia over ADSL/cable networks grew by 61,000TB to 174,000. The total data over wireless networks grew just 2,000TB to 16,000.
The number of ADSL connections grew by 300,000, which is double the rate of new dwellings over the 12 months.
The average monthly download grew 6GB to 18GB......So the biggest wireless broadband plan Telstra offer can't even manage the average download in Australia.
In practise, 4G delivers less than 10Mbps.
So all things are not equal. For $90 you can have:
12GB at maybe 10Mbps over wireless OR
150GB at 100Mbps over the NBN
12x the volume at 10x the speed for the same money. Alternatively, you could have the NBN for 1/3 the price of wireless for 3x the data and still at a faster speed. You really think that's a viable alternative.
- Joined
- 21 June 2009
- Posts
- 5,880
- Reactions
- 14
You're kidding aren't you?
If someone asked me the question: "All else being equal, would you prefer a 4G wireless or the NBN fibre", I'd say 4G wireless too.
But then, all else isn't equal. Wireless is much more expensive than fibre, and it's much slower. It always has been, and it always will be. The fact is that the light spectrum can carry 20,000 times more bandwidth than the entire radio spectrum. That's a physical limit.
As I wrote in my last post, there's no telco engineers saying wireless can replace fixed in urban areas. It just can't cope with that volume of data.
There are already 4G networks running in the US and few European countries. Speeds are unimpressive, averaging under 10Mbps indoors.
Telstra have already said they don't expect their 4G wireless to be any cheaper than their 3G wireless, which is currently (at best) $90 for 12GB/month.
Now some relevant ABS stats:
Between Dec09 and Dec10, the total monthly data downloaded in Australia over ADSL/cable networks grew by 61,000TB to 174,000. The total data over wireless networks grew just 2,000TB to 16,000.
The number of ADSL connections grew by 300,000, which is double the rate of new dwellings over the 12 months.
The average monthly download grew 6GB to 18GB......So the biggest wireless broadband plan Telstra offer can't even manage the average download in Australia.
In practise, 4G delivers less than 10Mbps.
So all things are not equal. For $90 you can have:
12GB at maybe 10Mbps over wireless OR
150GB at 100Mbps over the NBN
12x the volume at 10x the speed for the same money. Alternatively, you could have the NBN for 1/3 the price of wireless for 3x the data and still at a faster speed. You really think that's a viable alternative.
You have completely missed what the article was driving at. The goverment has scheduled a 70% takeup rate for the NBN to be viable. The poll evidences that the 4G "could" be a threat if the people do not take up the NBN and prefer to remain wireless. All your facts and figures and links are exactly that .... hypothesis as the NBN is STILL the great unknown. 840 people on a trial basis is hardly earth shattering stuff.
We will have to wait until this thing is actually functioning on a day to day basis to see if it going to work or not.
And therein lies the conundrum. (Rolls eyes again)
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,649
- Reactions
- 24,553
Yes we all want the N.B.N and a cleaner atmosphere, thats why Labor have been polling so well for the last couple of years. LOL.
It's o.k asking someone do you want an ice cream, answer: yes. Do you want an ice cream if it costs $50, answer: no.
A bit like a poll, do you want a cleaner planet answer: yes. Do you want to pay twice as much for your electricity answer: no.
That sunshine is why the government is going down the toilet, like yourself they are not listening.
It's o.k saying 76% want it, but do 76% want to pay for it, the next election will give you the answer.
But like you said, put in place lots of contracts so that it costs too much to unwind it, that shows confidence.
The Labor party went to the last election with the N.B.N and were creamed.
They have now thrown in the carbon tax and they are looking like they will be smashed. Like I said earlier they don't listen, they are too busy ramming, what they want, down peoples throats.
Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
- Joined
- 2 January 2006
- Posts
- 13,699
- Reactions
- 10,313
You have completely missed what the article was driving at. The goverment has scheduled a 70% takeup rate for the NBN to be viable. The poll evidences that the 4G "could" be a threat if the people do not take up the NBN and prefer to remain wireless. All your facts and figures and links are exactly that .... hypothesis as the NBN is STILL the great unknown. 840 people on a trial basis is hardly earth shattering stuff.
We will have to wait until this thing is actually functioning on a day to day basis to see if it going to work or not.
Not at all. I was merely pointing out, based on known variables, that there's a huge distance between 'could', 'might' and 'will'.
We know that there is no sign people are abandoning fixed lines for wireless. In fact, the opposite is true.
We know about 93% of Australian premises currently have fixed phone/net connections.
We know wireless is much slower.
We know wireless is much more expensive.
We know that the 'move to wireless' theory is false, and that in fact most data delivered to wireless devices comes via WiFi (ie the fixed network), not mobile broadband.
We know that NBN connections are available for less money than current copper connections.
We know that average broadband downloads have been growing at 50% per year (compounded) since at least 2001.
We know that you cannot get a Telstra wireless plan that copes with the current average 18GB/mon download for any price.
We know that there is a massive shortage of spectrum for mobile data, and capacity is not growing fast enough to meet even smartphone demand, let alone trying to cope with fixed-net replacement.
So, on what is known, the chance that wireless-only households will be a substantial portion of the population is slim. There's simply nothing in it for people.
- Joined
- 21 June 2009
- Posts
- 5,880
- Reactions
- 14
Once again all good in theory. We will not know until the shiny blue cable is operational
- Joined
- 21 June 2009
- Posts
- 5,880
- Reactions
- 14
Evil hacker had control of NBN for 6 weeks !!
http://www.news.com.au/technology/evil-hacker-charged-with-nbn-attack/story-e6frfro0-1226102480479
http://www.news.com.au/technology/evil-hacker-charged-with-nbn-attack/story-e6frfro0-1226102480479
Another load of absolute crap from News Ltd. What a surprise.
The hacker was in the systems of ISP Platform Networks in December 2010. Platform became aware of the hack, put the hacker into a "sandbox", notified the AFP and they then monitored him for several months.
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/264880,police-arrest-truckie-over-evil-network-hack.aspx
Platform became aware of "unlawful traffic transiting our network.... in December 2010 during routine systems and network monitoring".
"The activity in question was far reaching, involved a large number of networks both in and outside of Australia, and was not focused on either Platform Networks or any of its customers specifically," Hooton said in a letter to its customers.
The company had undertaken a six-month investigation into the traffic and had begun working with the AFP to resolve the issue.
"In fact the company said to have been involved has not yet connected services over the NBN."
In other words, the hack had absolutely nothing to do with the NBN and he never accessed any NBN-related systems, because the company he hacked isn't even connected to the NBN yet.
Who would have thought that News Ltd would have a demonstrably false story relating to the NBN. That's a first.
http://michaelwyres.com/2011/07/the-australian-fuds-it-again/
Keep trying Trainspotter....
