Carbon Trading: How does it work?

[So_Cynical]

These abatements seems crazy. We are talking about serious billions of dollars here that this government wants to see sent to who knows where and to be spent by whoever to pay some sort of penance for the air we breathe, our bush fires, our farting cows or any other naturally occouring co2.

International trading of offsets etc was a key part of the Kyoto protocol (1997) and is a key part of the Euro emissions trading scheme and will be an important part of the Australian scheme and every other scheme to follow....always was going to be and always will be, this information has been freely available to everyone for 15 years.

Its based on the reality that all country's and economy's are a little different, at different stages of development etc and can participate in a global emission's trading scheme in different ways all the while under one rule set (Kyoto protocol)

Good news is that its a 2 way street and Australia can expect to see massive forestry offset investment from internationals wanting to store carbon, in forests, in Australia and invest in clean energy projects etc to earn offsets to be used internationally.

 

[sails]

Kyoto is not having a lot of luck with the bigger co2 emitting countries - and we are quite small at 1.3% of global co2 emissions:

From ClimateSpecatator by Yang Fuqiang & Ang Li: Kyoto coma

Japan, Russia and Canada have made clear that they will not be making any undertakings under Kyoto’s second commitment period – the mooted second phase of the global climate agreement,

and

From Gulf News by Mohammad Abdel Raouf: Climate change talks in cold freeze

It is worth mentioning that the world's two largest greenhouse gas emitters — China and the US — are not bound by the Kyoto Protocol

Perhaps this fad is coming to an end and people in other countries are losing faith or interest in it. It doesn't inspire one with confidence.

 

[So_Cynical]

Kyoto is not having a lot of luck with the bigger co2 emitting countries - and we are quite small at 1.3% of global co2 emissions:

Perhaps this fad is coming to an end and people in other countries are losing faith or interest in it. It doesn't inspire one with confidence.

Yep an almost 20 year fad that just wont go away...Howard and Bush simply pretended, or stupidly thought it would just go away, many on the right side of Australian politics just can believe its actually about to happen, hell ive waited almost 20 years to see this finally come about, the inevitability of it coming to fruition.

For the people with vision its not losing momentum, its not going to just go away, its not a blackberry or a yo yo or a Y2K kind of Fad that will just disappear....change like this is dam hard to achieve at any level but the political, social and scientific momentum continues.

For the record China signed up on the 29th May 1998 and ratified on the 30th August 2002..China was a key negotiator and active on the leadership front of the group of 77 (G77)

191 country's have signed on since 1998 and there has been 17 major COP meetings and countless other smaller international COP lead up meetings, Kyoto and the GHG/Global warming industry is clearly on its last legs...well im sure it is according to AM talk back radio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kyoto_Protocol_signatories

http://www.g77.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Framework_Convention_on_Climate_Change

 

[sails]

Cynical - did you actually read the article or even the excerpts I posted?

There is losing interest in the second phase of Kyoto. The initial signing had a sunset clause (as I understand it) and runs out in 2012.

Let me try again and I will take those quotes out of italics in case you have having difficulting reading it. It is in bold below:

"Japan, Russia and Canada have made clear that they will not be making any undertakings under Kyoto’s second commitment period ...

and

It is worth mentioning that the world's two largest greenhouse gas emitters ”” China and the US ”” are not bound by the Kyoto Protocol "

 

[sails]

...For the people with vision its not losing momentum, its not going to just go away, its not a blackberry or a yo yo or a Y2K kind of Fad that will just disappear....change like this is dam hard to achieve at any level but the political, social and scientific momentum continues....

There may still be people with "vision" to take over the world by stealth but they are becomming increasingly in the minority and the general public are tiring of the nonsense and now becomming angry in Australia that their hard earned dollars are going to be stolen from them.

Gillard's pathetic little blubbery cry was unbelievable. She wants to plunder our economy and our hip pockets and then cries like a spoilt brat because no-one likes her any more. Kindergarten behaviour...

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I'd like to hear if anyone has an opinion on the prospects for COZ (CO2 group), a carbon sink company.

from their website: "CO2 Australia can help companies reduce their tax liability by establishing forest carbon sinks".

I have a small holding. A fundamental long term position - unusual for me.

Interesting case studies here: http://www.co2australia.com.au/page/index.php?sectionID=6695&pageID=6803

 

[iRod]

I'd like to hear if anyone has an opinion on the prospects for COZ (CO2 group), a carbon sink company.
....
I have a small holding. A fundamental long term position - unusual for me.

http://www.co2australia.com.au/page/index.php?sectionID=6695&pageID=6803

Hi Gringotts,
I also got a small parcel to hang onto for a suitable time to offload.

IMHO, this company business (disregarding climate change or carbon tax) is about rejuvenating farm land & if done to benefit the farmer it's no bad thing.

I see the Climate Change as a convenient way to 'spruik' the business regardless if CC's real or not. And I see the selling of renewable certificates or whatever they are as another method to promote the business (of tree planting) - when they can be sold like gift cards - I see them as no more than playing on the guilt trip of one's 'carbon footprint' & the the shame of a friend or relative's. All in all a very smart marketing ploy. Not unlike a movie or fashion fad or whatever!

Don't get me wrong I'm quite happy to go to a greenies meeting & tell them I'm a "Skeptic" or "Jetseter" (the highest individual gift card @ $160!)

http://www.yonderr.com.au/offset-gifts.html

And suggest to them all if they really believe in CC, then they should each buy one 4 me!:

Is that OK ie. legal??

As far as whether the whole business is viable I don't really know. As long as I can sell the share higher than what I bought them for is all that matters to me.

I expect the next spike in renewable s will be when the legislation gets debated & presumably passed in Aug. And then if all goes according to plan get a "fat wad off cash" from the Bob Brown Slush fund. As it will be high on his "favourites" list.


Regards

 

[trainspotter]

Can't see why not? Paulownia Management has been doing it for years as well as Elders. My only concern is that it might suffer the same fate as the tea tree farm fiasco. But it has the Brown stamp of approval so it should all be good.