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Ban live exports! Cattle should not be treated like this!

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So, Sadjii, what exactly do you think should happen?
i.e. are you happy for the trade to resume with no changes taking place in Indonesian slaughter houses, the abuse continuing?
Do you support stunning of the animal before killing?

Only a very small number of Australians want the live trade closed down, but many want to see mandatory stunning.

The government has created an abysmal mess here, not just in terms of the disaster it represents for producers, but it has also offended the Indonesian government which is equally stupid.
 
Julia said:
So, Sadjii, what exactly do you think should happen?
i.e. are you happy for the trade to resume with no changes taking place in Indonesian slaughter houses, the abuse continuing?
Do you support stunning of the animal before killing?

Only a very small number of Australians want the live trade closed down, but many want to see mandatory stunning.

The government has created an abysmal mess here, not just in terms of the disaster it represents for producers, but it has also offended the Indonesian government which is equally stupid.
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It's funny that you would ask "Do you support stunning of the animal before killing?" after I've already said that no one here is suggesting that we should condone animal cruelty. What sort of silly question is that?

If you do want to ask the question, well, I don't care how the animal is killed, as long as it is done humanely. If they want to put a bullet through the brain (an instant kill which takes place before the animal knows what is going on) I'm happy for them to do it without stunning first. If the most humane way practical in the abbotoir is to stun first, sure, whatever. As long as it's humane I'm happy. "Mandatory stunning" is a stupid rule (because it rules out other humane options which might be better, even more humane than stunning), but hey, if it is humane and it can be brought in, sure, I'm all for it. Just because I don't want to see cattle needlessly shot dead and left to rot, just because I don't want to have food wasted, just because I don't want to deprive families of their income doesn't mean I want to hurt animals! I'm actually a compassionate person who wants the best for animals as well as people.

If very few people want the industry shut down but they want mandatory stunning, how about putting an intelligent course of action in place to bring in mandatory stunning rather than shutting down the industry? There are cheaper methods which could be used to do this, and ones which don't require the slaughter and waste of countless cattle. So what would I do? Well, ANY of those alternatives would be better. What kind of idiot regulates an industry by saying "Oh, look, we found a problem in an isolated part of the industry, let's just shut the entire thing down, IMMEDIATELY"? This is particularly stupid when dealing with a live animal industry, because live animals can't just be put on the shelf for a few weeks, months or years while things get sorted out, they need space, money, feed, man hours etc to keep alive and well. Drastic, unplanned action is going to result in an animal welfare issue, and in most cases that will be a greater problem than the one you were trying to fix, as in this case.

Do you really need to ask if there is a better way to handle things? I can hardly even think of a worse one. With the amount of money this stupid decision is going to cost, it's pretty easy for anyone with a third of a brain cell to rub against the inside of their skull to come up with better, cheaper options.
 
And that's how the fight started ......

RSPCA Australia has condemned a West Australian farmer for opting to shoot cattle once destined for the Indonesian live export market.

Moola Bulla station owner Nico Botha says he will start shooting up to 3000 cattle as soon as Wednesday because he can't sell them or afford to feed them anymore.

But RSPCA spokeswoman Lisa Chalk said there's no reason the animals should be shot.

"There is a $35 million government and industry fund to assist producers during this period," she said in a statement on Tuesday.
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Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...nt/story-e6frfku9-1226088239095#ixzz0sn32ruAc
 
Spotter thats exactly right ,what a**** head south African, no cattleman worth his salt would shoot his cattle, but I see he couldnt start today as waiting for 60 Mins to turn up
 
It's certainly got the government into a spin.

“Rather than let them starve to death over two or three months, I'm going to shoot them quickly,” he told News Limited.

“My property is over-grazed and I have got too many cattle, I have to look forward to the next year or two.”

A spokesman for Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig said the minister had launched action to help Mr Botha as soon as he heard about the claims.

Senator Ludwig has contacted both Centrelink and the Cattle Council of Australia and asked them to get in touch with the farmer to offer their assistance.
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...r-cattle-farmers/story-e6frg6nf-1226088144601
 
Well well well ..... post #65 has just come back and bit me on the bum.

I also notice no sign of cow getting any cheaper at the butcher nor the supermarket as yet?
 
Sdajii said:
It's funny that you would ask "Do you support stunning of the animal before killing?" after I've already said that no one here is suggesting that we should condone animal cruelty. What sort of silly question is that?
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Not a silly question at all, given your ranting challenged my earlier support for the animals being stunned before killing.

If you do want to ask the question, well, I don't care how the animal is killed, as long as it is done humanely. If they want to put a bullet through the brain (an instant kill which takes place before the animal knows what is going on) I'm happy for them to do it without stunning first. If the most humane way practical in the abbotoir is to stun first, sure, whatever. As long as it's humane I'm happy. "Mandatory stunning" is a stupid rule (because it rules out other humane options which might be better, even more humane than stunning), but hey, if it is humane and it can be brought in, sure, I'm all for it. Just because I don't want to see cattle needlessly shot dead and left to rot, just because I don't want to have food wasted, just because I don't want to deprive families of their income doesn't mean I want to hurt animals! I'm actually a compassionate person who wants the best for animals as well as people.
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OK, fine. Thank you so much for the clarification which you could have expressed in about ten words instead of a whole long paragraph.


If very few people want the industry shut down but they want mandatory stunning, how about putting an intelligent course of action in place to bring in mandatory stunning rather than shutting down the industry? There are cheaper methods which could be used to do this, and ones which don't require the slaughter and waste of countless cattle. So what would I do? Well, ANY of those alternatives would be better. What kind of idiot regulates an industry by saying "Oh, look, we found a problem in an isolated part of the industry, let's just shut the entire thing down, IMMEDIATELY"? This is particularly stupid when dealing with a live animal industry, because live animals can't just be put on the shelf for a few weeks, months or years while things get sorted out, they need space, money, feed, man hours etc to keep alive and well. Drastic, unplanned action is going to result in an animal welfare issue, and in most cases that will be a greater problem than the one you were trying to fix, as in this case.
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OK, settle down now. I completely agree with you as will, I'd guess, most sensible people.

Do you really need to ask if there is a better way to handle things? I can hardly even think of a worse one. With the amount of money this stupid decision is going to cost, it's pretty easy for anyone with a third of a brain cell to rub against the inside of their skull to come up with better, cheaper options.
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Agree absolutely again. As I have all along on the utter stupidity of the government.

Let's see if our Kev can now fix this.
 
Julia said:
Let's see if our Kev can now fix this.
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WHOOOOOOOOOOAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa there sister girl. I was right there with ya pardner until you let loose the GIMP. Far out man, you may as well send Kryptonite to Superman :banghead:

Indonesian officials are very easily offended. Until they see the $$$$$$$$ coming their way.

What's this then? Muslim countries dictate that the throats must be cut ?

Indonesia is Australia's largest live cattle market, but Australian cattle and sheep are also shipped alive to the Middle East and other countries where they are often slaughtered according to Muslim custom by having their throats cut.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/07/ap/world/main20069901.shtml

Hard to sell the stun gun theory now isn't it in the name of religion?
 
trainspotter said:
What's this then? Muslim countries dictate that the throats must be cut ?





Hard to sell the stun gun theory now isn't it in the name of religion?
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They are stunned here then have their throats slit actually a very fast and as painless death as other methods. Indo's were using blunt knives though and cattle were struggling making it harder to cut. All they needed was a knife sharpener next to their station, stun gun and holding pen. Once again not all of the abattoirs were like that. And someone from the live export body should have handled this mess before it got to this stage.
But government reaction MY GOD makes you wonder what the hell they are doing. It's like watching some kind of politically retarded circus.
 
Mr Botha, who also owns Beefwood Park station about 180km to the west of Moola Bulla, said the irony was the ban -- introduced after Four Corners aired footage of cruelty in Indonesian abattoirs -- meant thousands of cattle may well die horrible deaths.

Northern Territory veterinary surgeon Gehan Jayawardhana, who has worked in the Top End since 1986, said the ban would have a horrific impact on animal welfare in northern Australia, far worse than in some Indonesia abattoirs.
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Yay awesome outcome on a feel good moment. Now we have starving cattle here and no money, while another country has exported their cattle to Indonesia and the same practice is more then likely continuing. High fives all round people:xyxthumbs


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/wa-grazier-to-proceed-with-mass-shooting-of-cattle/story-fn59niix-1226088394714
 
Julia said:
Not a silly question at all, given your ranting challenged my earlier support for the animals being stunned before killing.
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I never challenged support for animals being stunned before being killed, I don't care how they are killed as long as it is humane. For the record, I *would* prefer a more humane, instant kill, rather than the stupid stun-then-slash method you are supporting, the slashing bit only necessary to keep religious fanatics happy, and the stunning bit necessary to keep it a bit more humane. I was challenging your comment that you would support *any* government which tried to do something to enforce stunning. This is completely stupid. We shouldn't support idiotic governments which do idiotic things.



Julia said:
Agree absolutely again. As I have all along on the utter stupidity of the government.
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Julia said:
As I've already asked, how hard is it to just stun the animal before killing it! It's not, and I'll support any government anywhere which legislates for this to happen.
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See, this is the sort of mentality which brings benefits to idiotic governments which do idiotic things, and makes it happen again and again. We need to oppose idiotic moves, even if they are being done with good intentions and especially if they are being done under the guise of good intentions but without good intentions.

The support for an idiotic move which itself was not made with good intentions but was made to target people like yourself with good intentions is the problem here. This blind support for knee-jerk action makes the very problem you want to fix become worse, not to mention the damage it can cause to other areas, which in this case is massive. This is a perfect example of why we should *not* blindly support *any* government just because they are doing *something* to support a cause we like.
 
Interesting article in the Business Spectator by Robert Gottliebsen

Full article: Canberra's stunning cattle misery

Suswono appears set to teach Australians a lesson about respect for your neighbour that we will never forget. When I set out the danger (Cattle missteps could hurt Australia, June 27) it was still possible to avoid a catastrophe for the Australian cattle industry and the nation. Now that Suswono has dug in it will be very difficult
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What a right royal mess...:eek:
 
Sdajii said:
I never challenged support for animals being stunned before being killed, I don't care how they are killed as long as it is humane. For the record, I *would* prefer a more humane, instant kill, rather than the stupid stun-then-slash method you are supporting, the slashing bit only necessary to keep religious fanatics happy, and the stunning bit necessary to keep it a bit more humane. I was challenging your comment that you would support *any* government which tried to do something to enforce stunning. This is completely stupid. We shouldn't support idiotic governments which do idiotic things.
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1. Strangely enough, I won't lose any sleep over your opinion.

2. I'm happy to maintain my support for stunning to be legislated by any government that is prepared to take such a step, or alternatively any action which renders the animal unconscious before the barbaric practice of cutting its throat.

3. You are welcome to continue to call me stupid. I won't, however, be further responding.
 
1) Quite 'peculiar' that you feel the need to point that out ;)

2) Sad that you'll still support this move, even though it hurts the very issue (animal welfare) that you are interested in. Sad and strange that an apparently intelligent person would take that stance.

3) I didn't call you stupid. Even smart people make stupid decisions or have stupid beliefs, I've never met anyone who hasn't. I may think it's crazy to support this government on this stance, but that doesn't mean I think you're stupid in terms of who you are as an entire person.
 
Well, well what a shmozzle, great leadership,maybe if we whinge loud enough they will rethink carbon tax
 
They sorta had to resume the trade. The Gillard Government had cut it's throat on this. It was time for some serious damage control, for more than one reason.

Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd had been due to discuss the suspension and efforts to resume trade with the Indonesian Agriculture Minister, Suswono, in Jakarta on Friday.
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...rts-to-indonesia/story-fn59niix-1226089170854

Any celibration by pastoralists will be quickly tempered by the scorched earth left from Labor's original ban.
 
breaker said:
Well, well what a shmozzle, great leadership,maybe if we whinge loud enough they will rethink carbon tax
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Too many blind greenies would whinge if they did (does "We'll support any government which makes a stand for the environment" sound strangely familiar? People making the well-intentioned but counterproductive choice to follow an idiotic plan designed to suck the naive public in), including their commanding rulers. They've dug a hole there they can't get out of, and unfortunately, we're all stuck in it.
 
breaker said:
.....maybe if we whinge loud enough they will rethink carbon tax
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I'd love to see the look on Bob Brown's face if they did. Not much chance of that though as Labor has sold its soul to the Greens.

We can only hope that now they botch the detail and marketing sufficiently badly that the public reaction is such that rats within jump that particular listing ship. Policy track record would have to suggest it's a distinct possibility.
 
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