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Queensland Floods

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Julia said:
I don't think anyone would disagree with this in principle. What you haven't commented on, however, is the readiness of governments to provide foreign aid.
Using your example, shouldn't Australian taxpayers equally expect that e.g. Indonesia should be prepared to pay for their own mosques, schools etc?

I appreciate that foreign aid is often provided as a means of enhancing the relationship between countries, oiling wheels as it were, but I don't suppose your average regional Queenslander whose house is under water is probably going to think too much about that.

It's a vexed question. The objective and rational response is as you and Knobby have suggested. But somehow human compassion surely has to have a role?
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Well said Julia, and its all about buying a seat on the United Nations General Assembly for Ruddy, hence the reason our left wing Govna Gen went to several African nations in 2009 and at what cost?
 
There may be but I haven't heard of a "Natural Event Damage Fund" where funds are put aside by States for natural events affecting large numbers of people. Surely the coffers would swell in between large natural events such as fires, cyclones, extended droughts and floods.
 
Fairbairn Dam Spillway Emerald.

The Fitzroy River Basin is the largest catchment in Australia after the Murray-Darling. All its tributaries are in severe flood and this wall of water is heading for Rockhampton, a city of 75,000 people.

048075-flood10.jpg
 
Julia said:
I don't think anyone would disagree with this in principle. What you haven't commented on, however, is the readiness of governments to provide foreign aid.
Using your example, shouldn't Australian taxpayers equally expect that e.g. Indonesia should be prepared to pay for their own mosques, schools etc?
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Could you please read up on why Australia gives foreign aid to Indonesia and the pacific nations in particular?

You will find two very specific reasons one for each region none even remotely explored in this thread. Try starting with terrorism, radicalism, failed states etc BTW supported in principle by all sides of politics.

How you mob tie foreign aid with the flood crisis is beyond me.

As for the money thing its like people calling for money half way through a cyclone that's still wrecking the town.

I would have thought the money will flow after the water levels fall and the true cost and needs are accessed.

In the mean time just like any other disaster the normal agency's manage the crisis until the crisis passes then the governments (state / fed) turn up with the money bag and waste and rip offs will come soon enough.

As for compassion................were have the harden WR gone, Knobby is right talk about a bunch of closet Communists.

Most of the vision I have seen is of people who cannot afford insurance because they live in a known flood plain.

Isn't that market forces working? Just like work place contracts take it or go some where else, Isn't that what is preached by the hard nose Liberals?

End of rant
 
Interesting to follow this thread. It's had me thinking a bit.

Taking stock of my living circumstances in a 28 storey apartment block on the spine of Sydney I can't help but feel a bit detached from it all in my airconditioned comfort.

I don't have insurance, I'm hoping that being three years old my building has been constructed to withstand earthquakes and floods and tsunamis and with modern engineering and air extractions and smoke alarms in my concrete shell with a two inch thick fire door and balcony I'm not too concerned about fire or wind either.

I pay a lot of money for this and work pretty damn hard to support this lifestyle both in my occupation and secondary occupation aka trading the markets.

I guess I'm what some of these sturdy "pragmatic" country folk would derisively call a city slicker or worse. I saw a few in the Murray Darling on tv when the govt started to reallocate their water rights.

Their behaviour didn't impress me much.

The nation seems to treat the rural sector with this uncommercial reverence as if these hicks sitting on the verandah drinking jim beam watching the grass grow at the mercy of the weather are somehow smarter and more deserving of national support than any other.

And lets not fool ourselves the farming sector is cyclical in terms of production and generational in it's nature. Do farmers finance their activities on a long term cyclical nature or do they feast on their revenues in good times and put their hands out to the government in times of hardship?

I guess I'm wandering off topic a bit and might sound a bit callous as the scale of this disaster unfolds but in all honesty when the rural sector seem to take such pride in their tough commonsense approach to life and look down upon their urbanised counterparts why is it the urban population has to keep bailing them out all the time?
 
Calliope said:
What does this mean?:dunno:. Is it some sort of whale-lovers code?
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LOL no just getting in a free kick re insurance, market forces, free handouts any time some thing goes wrong.

Bleeding hearts is suppose to be my-side of the fence :)
 
Wysiwyg said:
There may be but I haven't heard of a "Natural Event Damage Fund" where funds are put aside by States for natural events affecting large numbers of people. Surely the coffers would swell in between large natural events such as fires, cyclones, extended droughts and floods.
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Sounds reasonable, but wouldn't that further deter an already reluctant population from taking out appropriate insurance?


Calliope said:
What does this mean?:dunno:. Is it some sort of whale-lovers code?
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I was wondering the same thing.

IFocus said:
LOL no just getting in a free kick re insurance, market forces, free handouts any time some thing goes wrong.

Bleeding hearts is suppose to be my-side of the fence :)
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Which essentially demonstrates that the right/left divide is overall pretty meaningless.

The more I think about this, the more I revert to how I felt re the Victorian bushfires (perhaps shamefully no longer feeling threatened by the floods), and agree with Knobby and Smurf.

I heard a comment today on the radio that people who were not insured should not worry as relief funds, from government and other sources, will see them not disadvantaged.

That's just not right and is just encouraging dependence on the state.

I'm aware that I'm being ambivalent about all this.
 
Slipperz said:
And lets not fool ourselves the farming sector is cyclical in terms of production and generational in it's nature. Do farmers finance their activities on a long term cyclical nature or do they feast on their revenues in good times and put their hands out to the government in times of hardship?

I guess I'm wandering off topic a bit and might sound a bit callous as the scale of this disaster unfolds but in all honesty when the rural sector seem to take such pride in their tough commonsense approach to life and look down upon their urbanised counterparts why is it the urban population has to keep bailing them out all the time?
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Not off topic at all, slipperz.
But I'm not sure in this situation that the people affected have themselves actually been reaching out for financial assistance. From what I've seen, they're demonstrating a pretty remarkable stoicism in the face of pretty overwhelming misery.

It's probably more the concern and sympathy of fellow Australians (and political considerations on the part of the politicians) that see the establishment of a flood appeal as the only way they can demonstrate their sympathy and support.

Remember back when the Kosovo war was happening. The term 'compassion fatigue' became popular. This is a perfectly real phenomenon. I don't think we have much of a sense of connection with those in devastating situations unless we have a taste ourselves of how it feels.

So Slipperz, you will be expressing the dominant response, I'd guess, in feeling a bit detached from the experiences of many regional Queenslanders. Not so different, even, from hearing about the Haiti or NZ earthquakes. If you don't have a personal connection, it simply doesn't affect you at all.
 
Julia said:
The more I think about this, the more I revert to how I felt re the Victorian bushfires (perhaps shamefully no longer feeling threatened by the floods), and agree with Knobby and Smurf.

I heard a comment today on the radio that people who were not insured should not worry as relief funds, from government and other sources, will see them not disadvantaged.

That's just not right and is just encouraging dependence on the state.

I'm aware that I'm being ambivalent about all this.
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Dear Julia,
Not so much ambivalent as panicky I think. You posts are usually so level-headed that it's hard to recognise you when you occasionally get irrational :)

Glad you and the pooch are both safe and well.

Ghoti
 
ghotib said:
Dear Julia,
Not so much ambivalent as panicky I think. You posts are usually so level-headed that it's hard to recognise you when you occasionally get irrational :)

Glad you and the pooch are both safe and well.

Ghoti
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Hello Ghoti,
You're quite right. I am indeed being irrational.
And hell, I'm all calm now compared to a few days ago!
Hope the farm is meeting all your expectations and the special animal holding her own.
J.
 
Julia said:
Sounds reasonable, but wouldn't that further deter an already reluctant population from taking out appropriate insurance?
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Yes well deduced Julia. I suppose the belief would be that the money is what was contributed in taxes anyway.

Maybe not for personal use but communal?
 
Slipperz said:
I guess I'm wandering off topic a bit and might sound a bit callous as the scale of this disaster unfolds but in all honesty when the rural sector seem to take such pride in their tough commonsense approach to life and look down upon their urbanised counterparts why is it the urban population has to keep bailing them out all the time?
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I think it is time you got out and had a look at the real world. Remember "if you eat you ARE involved in agriculture".:(
 
I agree with the comments that taxpayers funds shouldn't be used to completely replace the need for insurance. However, as Smurf has mentioned, insurance doesn't always cover flood. I have heard that it may be difficult for farms to get flood insurance and this will possibly affect the prices we pay for food. Food that is likely to be in very short supply for a while or we have to put up with imports.

It is the comparison of the extraordinary amount of funds that is channeled off overseas compared with the paltry amount from both federal and state governments for this natural disaster. There might be reasons for these extraordinary amounts going overseas, but on the surface, it seems that our own taxpayers caught in this disaster have much less significance. We should not forget that many of those affected (farmers included) would be paying taxes only to see their taxes favouring other disasters overseas.

To break it down - if there are 10,000 homes and businesses severely affected - $1 million would mean $100 each. If there are 100,000 it would be $10 per home/business. So no amount of government handout is going to completely replace insurance even if that amount was 10 or 20 times higher.

I guess the problem the government will have to face is that this could produce a whole new wave of homelesness and they are struggling cope with the current homeless levels.

nioka said:
I think it is time you got out and had a look at the real world. Remember "if you eat you ARE involved in agriculture".:(
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Spot on, Nioka...:)
 
nioka said:
I think it is time you got out and had a look at the real world. Remember "if you eat you ARE involved in agriculture".:(
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Ain't that the blunt truth!


All the major agricultural countries subsidise their primary producers in some shape or form, often as subsidies or guaranteed minimum prices. The US pay farmers to grow crops and call it "farm income stabilization"... I think they paid something like $20 Billion last year.

Take the cheap subsidised European veges and dubious quality (health wise) Asian seafoods flushing our supermarkets some time ago. People complained about supporting heavily subsidised and or poor quality imports, arguing that the 'retailers' should support local producers more and keep more money in the local economy.

Talking about flood damage, veg prices are starting to go through the roof. Over Xmas I thought I was made buying a watermelon for $2.50 after paying up to $8.00 each leading up to Xmas. Yesterday it was hard to find one.

Around Bundaberg the flooding has started to receed but the impact of crop damage and inability to plant waterlogged ground has yet to be fully felt. Then there is Emerald which is usually a large supplier of fruit and veg getting the tail end of their season lost... and similarly for so much of the Fitzroy, Burnett and Mary river valleys and those northern NSW regions that follow on from our season.

My little crop of pumpkin is almost a write-off, but after seeing small stuff that you wouldn't normally bother picking selling for up to $3.00 each, I'll be finding every last one I can over the next few weeks to try and make up for the 6 to 8 tonnes at about $500 to $1,000 per tonne I was expecting out of the rotation crop.

Central and southern Qld mangoes have suffered more after a wet spring killing off a lot of fruit set and prices are topped only by consumer resistance to higher prices... not to mention so many other fruit and veg lines that are and will be the same story over the coming weeks and maybe months.

Then there are the cereal and cotton crop damage and yet to be tallied livestock losses.

It's as much about national (food) security as welfare to support the rural sector in such extreme circumstances.

All that being said, our mining sector has arguably a better deal than the rural sector, both as subsidies and grants and more importantly income tax laws.

Many on this forum would consider the share market to be the riskiest form of investment, but Agricultural Production (Farming) is actually the higher risk of investment. That is why so many countries value and look after their Farming sector so well.
 
Whiskers said:
Ain't that the blunt truth!


All the major agricultural countries subsidise their primary producers in some shape or form, often as subsidies or guaranteed minimum prices. The US pay farmers to grow crops and call it "farm income stabilization"... I think they paid something like $20 Billion last year.

Take the cheap subsidised European veges and dubious quality (health wise) Asian seafoods flushing our supermarkets some time ago. People complained about supporting heavily subsidised and or poor quality imports, arguing that the 'retailers' should support local producers more and keep more money in the local economy.

Talking about flood damage, veg prices are starting to go through the roof. Over Xmas I thought I was made buying a watermelon for $2.50 after paying up to $8.00 each leading up to Xmas. Yesterday it was hard to find one.

Around Bundaberg the flooding has started to receed but the impact of crop damage and inability to plant waterlogged ground has yet to be fully felt. Then there is Emerald which is usually a large supplier of fruit and veg getting the tail end of their season lost... and similarly for so much of the Fitzroy, Burnett and Mary river valleys and those northern NSW regions that follow on from our season.

My little crop of pumpkin is almost a write-off, but after seeing small stuff that you wouldn't normally bother picking selling for up to $3.00 each, I'll be finding every last one I can over the next few weeks to try and make up for the 6 to 8 tonnes at about $500 to $1,000 per tonne I was expecting out of the rotation crop.

Central and southern Qld mangoes have suffered more after a wet spring killing off a lot of fruit set and prices are topped only by consumer resistance to higher prices... not to mention so many other fruit and veg lines that are and will be the same story over the coming weeks and maybe months.

Then there are the cereal and cotton crop damage and yet to be tallied livestock losses.

It's as much about national (food) security as welfare to support the rural sector in such extreme circumstances.

All that being said, our mining sector has arguably a better deal than the rural sector, both as subsidies and grants and more importantly income tax laws.

Many on this forum would consider the share market to be the riskiest form of investment, but Agricultural Production (Farming) is actually the higher risk of investment. That is why so many countries value and look after their Farming sector so well.
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Excellent post Whiskers. It's about time someone explained the facts of life to smug and selfish people like Slipperz who like to sink the slipper into those who feed them.
 
THE swollen Fitzroy River surged closer to its flood peak this morning, placing hundreds of Rockhampton properties in danger.

Some might say that this is nemesis for Rockhampton for continuing to re-elect Queensland's most obnoxious politician...Robert Schwarten

184130-robert-schwarten.jpg
 
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