Vitamin D changes everything

[motorway]

Motorway - interesting point re washing. With humanity becoming more and more paranoid about sterility (anti-bac handwashes etc etc) and better hygiene, have we swapped some diseases for something else? From what Dr Cannell suggests we aren't helping ourselves. And this likely all ties into the increase in allergen sensitivity in the population.

I shall have to get my books out again when I get back home!

What Vit D suppl do you use, If I may ask?

more from John on washing

sunbathing may not produce much vitamin D if you shower with soap after exposure. Water cleans the body but does not destroy as much sebum, human body oil.

When you think about it, God made the perfect body oil for humans””sebum””but humans wash off her body oil and then apply body oils made by the cosmetic industry. I doubt she likes that.

On D supplements best in OZ i found was this

http://www.bioceuticals.com.au/product.aspx?function=displayproduct&productid=237

But for value

moved on to this

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Vitamin-D-3-Highest-Potency-5-000-IU-240-Softgels/22335?at=0

and this

http://www.iherb.com/Healthy-Origins-Vitamin-D3-10-000-IU-360-Softgels/21298?at=0

Add $4.00 for Air mail...

you can adjust dose by taking one every so many days

Motorway

Motorway

 

[johenmo]

Tks. Actually got some and some Mg AA chelate today. Had good discussion with pharmacist re vit D. He has quite a few taking it, with some up to 6,000 IU /day. Will check out yr sites. He also didn't recommend the MgOxide.

The modern lifestyle is so nutritionally destructive. We have a friend who has a daughter with SMA. Was supposed to die by 12-18 months, but she has turned 17 and is finishing high school. The diet is strict vegan but they know what they're doing and they are all healthy. A "normal" diet would kill her.

Cheers

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

The barmy vitamin munchers are as deleterious to a vibrant Australia as the greens, basket weavers and weather pseudoscientists.

If you are not indigenous, live on the Eastern coat of Australia or Perth and environs, you have buckleys of being deficient in anything, vitamins, Vit D, et al

All this concentration on nutrition is a substitute for religion, and its purveyors resemble priests more than scientists.

Wake up to yourselves, fish, get a veggie garden, bake, cook and stew, kill a beast now and then, r00t and don't worry about all this data, as it is not validated.

gg

 

[roland]

This is quite an unattractive site, but has good info on vitamins and minerals contained in foods and RDI's

http://www.healthyeatingclub.org/info/books-phds/books/foodfacts/html/data/data5d.html

Re: Magnesium, looking at where you can get this element from, naturally, one wonders why you would need to supplement.???

 

[roland]

The barmy vitamin munchers are as deleterious to a vibrant Australia as the greens, basket weavers and weather pseudoscientists.

If you are not indigenous, live on the Eastern coat of Australia or Perth and environs, you have buckleys of being deficient in anything, vitamins, Vit D, et al

All this concentration on nutrition is a substitute for religion, and its purveyors resemble priests more than scientists.

Wake up to yourselves, fish, get a veggie garden, bake, cook and stew, kill a beast now and then, r00t and don't worry about all this data, as it is not validated.

gg

Seems like that is not correct GG:

Vitamin D deficiency in adults

Devina Joshi, Bone and Calcium Registrar, 1, 2 Jacqueline R Center, Associate Professor of Medicine (Conjoint), 3 Staff Endocrinologist1 and Senior Research Fellow, 2 and John A Eisman, Professor of Medicine (Conjoint), 3 Staff Endocrinologist 1 and Director 2

1 St Vincent's Hospital, Sydney
2 Osteoporosis and Bone Biology, Garvan Institute of Medical Research, Sydney
3 University of New South Wales, Sydney

Summary

Vitamin D deficiency is a common condition that affects a significant number of Australians. Vitamin D is important in the maintenance of bone health, and deficiency leads to osteomalacia and contributes to fragility fractures. Deficiency has also been implicated in a wide variety of extra-skeletal conditions. Vitamin D can be easily assessed in patients by measuring serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D. Replacement of vitamin D needs to be tailored for each patient and depends on the severity of the deficiency. Toxicity is unlikely with vitamin D when it is administered as cholecalciferol as it has a wide safety window.The adequacy of replacement should be monitored and in cases of persistently low concentrations, malabsorptive conditions (especially coeliac disease) should be excluded.

Key words: calcitriol, cholecalciferol, ergocalciferol.

(Aust Prescr 2010;33:103-6)
Australia is well known for its abundance of sunshine. Hence, it is perhaps surprising that vitamin D deficiency is a common condition affecting a large proportion of Australians. A recognised consequence of low vitamin D is osteomalacia in adults.1 It also contributes to osteoporosis, that is fragility fractures, in part through increased risk of falls.2 Vitamin D deficiency has also been implicated in other conditions including cardiovascular disease, increased cancer risk and mortality, falls, sarcopenia, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, osteoarthritis, epilepsy and cognitive dysfunction.

Read more: http://www.australianprescriber.com/magazine/33/4/103/6

 

[motorway]

This is quite an unattractive site, but has good info on vitamins and minerals contained in foods and RDI's

http://www.healthyeatingclub.org/info/books-phds/books/foodfacts/html/data/data5d.html

Re: Magnesium, looking at where you can get this element from, naturally, one wonders why you would need to supplement.???

What is the RDI for Vitamin D ?
Should we accept that ?

http://www.mgwater.com

Magnesium requirements are underestimated. This is due to: (1) the misconception that the daily requirement is the amount that prevents signs and symptoms of severe deficiency or hypomagnesemia; (2) the difficulties in assaying cellular Mg, plasma Mg being a poor index of body status; (3) the maintenance of Mg-balance at suboptimal intakes and tissue levels; and (4) the increased needs caused by growth, development, repair, stress, dietary imbalances, and environmental factors.

If we accept the RDI

American Data is not too good in any case
I expect Australian data similar

The latest survey of magnesium (Mg) intakes of Americans (NHANES) indicates the majority of Americans have Mg intakes below the Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) in all age and race groups tested. In fact, the daily intakes were: 70 mg/day less than recommended in Caucasian men; 130 mg/day less in African American men; 60 mg/day less in Caucasian women; and 120 mg/day less than recommended in African American women. (The RDA is 320 mg/day for women and 420 mg/day for men.) Also, one statistic””called the standard error of the mean””was quite low. For example, +/- 6 for Caucasian men, raising the possibility that the vast majority of Americans are Mg deficient.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

VITAMIN D'S CO-FACTORSVitamin D has co-factors that the body needs in order to utilize vitamin D properly. They are:
magnesium
zinc
vitamin K2
boron
a tiny amount of vitamin A
Magnesium is the most important of these co-factors. In fact, it is common for rising vitamin D levels to exacerbate an underlying magnesium deficiency. If one is having problems supplementing with vitamin D, a magnesium deficiency could be the reason why.

It probably is not needed if you have a very good diet ( I think I do )
But it is the most important Vit D co factor ( much more important than Calcium supplementation )

The levels in the diet of "Early Man" like Vit D would have been high esp compared to calcium ( 1 to 1 ratio ).. And I also have to rely on soft rainwater for drinking water.

High Mg foods were probably staples of Paleolithic man.

Seems also to have so many health benefits

Magnesium (Mg) is the forgotten mineral, an "orphan," as Professor Robert Heaney of Creighton University says. It is the fourth most abundant mineral in the body, for it is involved in more than 300 biochemical reactions. All the enzymes that metabolize Vitamin D require Mg. It is also required in each of the steps concerned with replication, transcription, and translation of genetic information, and thus it is also needed for the genetic mechanism of action of Vitamin D.

Besides these two reviews, any scientist interested in Vitamin D and the immune system should read Interactions between magnesium and vitamin D: possible implications in the immune system.

Two interesting cases of Mg dependent Vitamin D-resistant rickets appeared in the Lancet in 1974. Two children, one age two and the other age five, presented with classic rickets. 600,000 IU of Vitamin D daily for ten days did not result in any improvement in six weeks””in either x-rays or alkaline phosphatase””and the doctors diagnosed Vitamin D-resistant rickets. Almost by accident, serum Mg levels were then obtained, which were low in both children.

After the treatment with Mg, the rickets rapidly resolved. What does that mean? How can one treat rickets with Mg? Remember, these children took a total of 6 million units, that's a total of 6,000,000 IU of vitamin D over ten days (it was given as injections so we know the children actually took it). Thus, they had plenty of vitamin D but, in their cases, the vitamin D needed Mg to work.

Motorway

 

[roland]

It probably is not needed if you have a very good diet ( I think I do )
But it is the most important Vit D co factor ( much more important than Calcium supplementation )

Motorway

Sounds like you probably don't need a chemist's lab to solve a magnesium deficiency you most likely don't have.

Vitamin D I can understand, other elements and nutrition inputs should always be attempted with improving your diet, I mean - even a few brazil nuts sounds like a much better solution to buying a pill.

Also you must keep alert to what else is contained in the supplement. I chose not to use Blackmores D because of the sulphites they use as a preservative.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Seems like that is not correct GG:

Please provide some peer reviewed proof.

gg

 

[roland]

Please provide some peer reviewed proof.

gg

Motorway is a peer right now, and he swears by it. I'll immerse myself and will provide a further peer review in due course. That is of course, GG, if you will accept Motorway and myself as peers??

 

[motorway]

Sounds like you probably don't need a chemist's lab to solve a magnesium deficiency you most likely don't have.

Vitamin D I can understand, other elements and nutrition inputs should always be attempted with improving your diet, I mean - even a few brazil nuts sounds like a much better solution to buying a pill.

Also you must keep alert to what else is contained in the supplement. I chose not to use Blackmores D because of the sulphites they use as a preservative.

Basically agree Roland

Vitamin D I see as different ...If we want optimum health we really need to supplement ..
After that a good diet will do it
We don't need C & E and Calcium etc ..

With sufficient Vitamin D... things will work as they should
eg calcium will be absorbed and regulated..

Still take long chain omega 3s
in the form of molecular distilled oil from small cold water wild fish

But that is about it..

magnesium don't really disagree with you
but atm supplement with it
and feeling very well
with the Vit D Omega 3 and Mg
and good diet


Have seen the results show up in Blood tests with omega 3
So sticking with that...

certainly not a huge supplementation program


Motorway

 

[Julia]

Motorway is a peer right now, and he swears by it. I'll immerse myself and will provide a further peer review in due course. That is of course, GG, if you will accept Motorway and myself as peers??

Somehow I suspect that anonymous posters on a stock forum may not have been what gg had in mind when he requested peer reviewed data.

gg, I wouldn't hold your breath. The vitamin/health food industry is not exactly known for its scientifically controlled double blind studies.

I'm not suggesting that Vit D isn't indeed useful, but I'd be looking for qualified medical advice before rushing out to buy and gulp down what someone anonymous on the internet tells me is the right thing to do.

Motorway, the above is not intended as being disrespectful to you personally, but is made as a general cautionary comment.

 

[motorway]

Please provide some peer reviewed proof.

gg

Aust Fam Physician. 2004 Mar;33(3):133-8.
Vitamin D in Australia. Issues and recommendations.
Nowson CA, Diamond TH, Pasco JA, Mason RS, Sambrook PN, Eisman JA.
School of Health Sciences, Deakin University, Victoria.
Abstract
BACKGROUND: A significant number of Australians and people from specific groups within the community are suffering from vitamin D deficiency. It is no longer acceptable to assume that all people in Australia receive adequate vitamin D from casual exposure to sunlight.


Motorway

 

[roland]

Basically agree Roland

Vitamin D I see as different ...If we want optimum health we really need to supplement ..
After that a good diet will do it
We don't need C & E and Calcium etc ..

With sufficient Vitamin D... things will work as they should
eg calcium will be absorbed and regulated..

Still take long chain omega 3s
in the form of molecular distilled oil from small cold water wild fish

But that is about it..

magnesium don't really disagree with you
but atm supplement with it
and feeling very well
with the Vit D Omega 3 and Mg
and good diet


Have seen the results show up in Blood tests with omega 3
So sticking with that...

certainly not a huge supplementation program


Motorway

Sounds sensible, I grow 90% of my vegies and supplement my soil with my own compost from known inputs and add trace elements. I do take fish oil and CoQ10 and now Vitamin D - thanks to you!

Trying to guess what you are missing, nutritionally, is a tough call. Common sense is a good regulator.

 

[motorway]

Somehow I suspect that anonymous posters on a stock forum may not have been what gg had in mind when he requested peer reviewed data.

gg, I wouldn't hold your breath. The vitamin/health food industry is not exactly known for its scientifically controlled double blind studies.

I'm not suggesting that Vit D isn't indeed useful, but I'd be looking for qualified medical advice before rushing out to buy and gulp down what someone anonymous on the internet tells me is the right thing to do.

Motorway, the above is not intended as being disrespectful to you personally, but is made as a general cautionary comment.

Plenty of Double Blind Random trials with Vitamin D

Work your way through here

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/research.shtml
These will link to Journal Articles

I do not think I have posted one link to
The vitamin Industry
Just to the leading Scientists in the Field

If one did sneak in I apologize




For GG

Med J Aust. 2005 Mar 21;182(6):281-5.
Vitamin D and adult bone health in Australia and New Zealand: a position statement.
Working Group of the Australian and New Zealand Bone and Mineral Society; Endocrine Society of Australia; Osteoporosis Australia.
Comment in:
Med J Aust. 2005 Jul 4;183(1):52; author reply 53-4.
Med J Aust. 2005 Jul 4;183(1):52-3; author reply 53-4.
Abstract
A significant number of Australians are deficient in vitamin D--it is a fallacy that Australians receive adequate vitamin D from casual exposure to sunlight.

Motorway

 

[motorway]

Somehow I suspect that anonymous posters on a stock forum may not have been what gg had in mind when he requested peer reviewed data.

gg, I wouldn't hold your breath. The vitamin/health food industry is not exactly known for its scientifically controlled double blind studies.

I'm not suggesting that Vit D isn't indeed useful, but I'd be looking for qualified medical advice before rushing out to buy and gulp down what someone anonymous on the internet tells me is the right thing to do.

Motorway, the above is not intended as being disrespectful to you personally, but is made as a general cautionary comment.

For Julia

J Epidemiol. 2010 Dec 11. [Epub ahead of print]
Vitamin D Decreases Risk of Breast Cancer in Premenopausal Women of Normal Weight in Subtropical Taiwan.
Lee MS, Huang YC, Wahlqvist ML, Wu TY, Chou YC, Wu MH, Yu JC, Sun CA.
School of Public Health, National Defense Medical Center.
Abstract
Background: Evidence for an association between vitamin D status and breast cancer is now more convincing, but is uncertain in subtropical areas like Taiwan. This hospital-based case-control study examined the relationship of breast cancer with vitamin D intake and sunlight exposure.


Methods: A total of 200 incident breast cancer cases in a Taipei hospital were matched with 200 controls by date of interview and menopausal status. Information on risk factors for breast cancer was collected in face-to-face interviews and assessed with reference to vitamin D intake (foods and nutrients) and sunlight exposure. Vitamin D intake was divided into quartiles, and threshold effect was evaluated by comparing Q2-Q4 with Q1.

Results: After controlling for age, education, parity, hormone replacement therapy, body mass index (BMI), energy intake, menopausal status, and daily sunlight exposure, the risk of breast cancer in participants with a dietary vitamin D intake greater than 5 µg per day was significantly lower (odds ratio [OR], 0.48; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.24-0.97) than that of participants with an intake less than 2 µg per day.

In analysis stratified by menopausal status and BMI, both dietary vitamin D and total vitamin D intakes were associated with a protective effect among premenopausal women.

There was a significant linear trend for breast cancer risk and dietary vitamin D intake in premenopausal women (P = 0.02). In participants with a BMI lower than 24 kg/m(2) (ie, normal weight), dietary vitamin D intake was inversely related to breast cancer risk (P for trend = 0.002), and a threshold effect was apparent (Q2-Q4 vs Q1: OR, 0.46; 95% CI, 0.23-0.90).

Conclusions: Vitamin D had a protective effect against breast cancer in premenopausal women of normal weight in subtropical Taiwan, especially an intake greater than 5 µg per day.

 

[roland]

There are quite a few contrarian articles that are worth noting, here is one to have a read through: http://www.examiner.com/nutrition-i...thyl-iodide-pesticide-on-california-s-produce

 

[motorway]

There are quite a few contrarian articles that are worth noting, here is one to have a read through: http://www.examiner.com/nutrition-i...thyl-iodide-pesticide-on-california-s-produce

Which is the negative one ??

The first one if you search for the actual paper states

THURSDAY, Dec. 3 (HealthDay News) -- New research points to the possibility of a genetic link between vitamin D and heart disease.

People with high blood pressure who had a gene variant that reduces vitamin D activation in the body were found to be twice as likely as those without the variant to have congestive heart failure, the study found.

The other states


Researchers at Johns Hopkins are reporting what is believed to be the first conclusive evidence in men that the long-term ill effects of vitamin D deficiency are amplified by lower levels of the key sex hormone estrogen, but not testosterone.


The third again found lower D the problem

In an age-stratified random sample of 200 Rochester, Minnesota women, the prevalence of aortic calcification rose with aging, as did the prevalence of vertebral fractures, while bone mass fell. The statistically significant positive association of aortic calcification with vertebral fractures and the negative associations with bone mass at six skeletal sites were mainly accounted for by age. After age-adjustment, the only association remaining was a negative one between calcified aortic plaques and bone mineral density (BMD) of the lumbar spine (P < 0.05). Aortic calcification was not associated with any measures of calcium metabolism, after adjusting for age, except for a slight negative association between linear aortic calcifications and 25(OH) vitamin D levels (P < 0.05). BMD values of the lumbar spine were somewhat greater than predicted for age in women with severe aortic calcification, but similar findings were seen at other skeletal sites and none of the differences was statistically significant. While overestimation of bone mass was generally minimal, severe aortic calcification may distort lumbar spine assessments in a minority of postmenopausal women.

I see three studies that found D deficiency the problem ?

many of these studies are studies on people with very low D levels
I have not seen one study that found negative or null effects
That did not have a major flaw ( some just ridiculous)

here is a better study on calcification one that used a useful levels of D


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19092644

The below open study by Dr. William Davis and colleagues studied 45 adults with evidence of calcified coronary arteries, treating them with high-dose statins, niacin, fish oil (not cod liver oil) capsules, and enough vitamin D (average of about 4,000 IU/day) to obtain 25(OH)D levels of 50 ng/mL (125 nmol/L). They found that regimen reduced coronary calcium scores in 20 patients and slowed progression in 22 additional patients. That is, it reversed the coronary calcification process in about half of patients and slowed its progression in most of the rest.

Most studies have shown high-dose statins on their own do not reverse coronary arthrosclerosis, so we know it was not the statins alone.

What would vitamin D levels of 70 ng/mL (175 nmol/L) do? So, if you have coronary artery disease: ask your cardiologist about statins and niacin, take 5–10 fish oil capsules per day, and least 5,000 IU of vitamin D3 per day.


Motorway

 

[motorway]

I'm not suggesting that Vit D isn't indeed useful, but I'd be looking for qualified medical advice before rushing out to buy and gulp down what someone anonymous on the internet tells me is the right thing to do.

Motorway, the above is not intended as being disrespectful to you personally, but is made as a general cautionary comment.

Had an appointment with Doctor
Asked about Vitamin D

Yes wonderful
great for bones . heart . diabetes falls fractures
Cholesterol

Told me all the elderly are deficient
told many young girls are deficient ( no SUN lots of makeup )

Said she had many patients who would be better of on D than the handfuls of prescriptions they came in with ( from other doctors )

But She had never bought Vitamin D up==> I did..
Also said many patients coulld not care less
Just wanted prescriptions and nothing else

They would not take effort to
work on Lifestyle ( vitamin D being key part )

So I agree
Seek good medical advice
But be pro active

Do not wait for the Doctor to take initiative on lifestyle issues

You wait in a waiting room for over an hour
and get 8 mins to get a prescription !
It is not ideal health promoting model

The patient I was with was an 81 year old woman

Who had been taking 2000 iu a day for three months
So after talk with Doctor ( This was her long time Doctor )
She ordered all usual blood tests
and for the first time a Vitamin D test

3 mths on 2000iu a day the level came back at 80nmol/L

Goodness knows what it was before the three months at 2000iu a day

And all the usual Blood tests ?
AMAZING

Doctor said the HDL/LDL ratio and triglycerides were the best of any patient ( many of these were on Statins as well ..This patient was not)

Diabetes tests showed marked improvement
first time in over 10 years NORMAL

Blood presure
was excellent
She noted improved strength and balance

OK ask the Doctor I agree
But Make sure the agenda is optimizing HEALTH and not just
treating the Diseases
I doubt the Vit D issues would have ever been addressed
Just more prescriptions to treat Disease

But I do agree with you 100%
and see no disrespect etc

Motorway

PS If people do bring it up with Doctors it would be interesting to see response
Arm yourselves with some basic info

These two sites are not for profits
and primary resources on all things Vid D

http://www.grassrootshealth.net/

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

both have active Facebook activity ( Be more choosy about accepting postings here )

The agenda is

The Daction project is an international public health project to solve the vitamin D deficiency epidemic.

The major components of the project are

Education:
Diagnosis & Treatment of Vitamin D Deficiency seminars. Contact us to sponsor seminars in your community.
carole@grassrootshealth.org

Tours to educate the public and health care personnel in brief (1-2 hour) presentations about the epidemic and recommended actions.

Exhibits at major medical conferences.

And
Testing of vitamin D levels
GrassrootsHealth is sponsoring the use of blood spot test kits (laboratory analysis done by ZRT Labs) for a $60.00 fee to each individual. The tests are to be done twice a year by each individual along with the submission of some basic health data. The kits are not available as a ‘stand alone’ without health data.\

A 5 year study will be done with the data
accumulated from the individuals tested to evaluate the results of the program in disease prevention and to help create a long term plan for public health.

 

[motorway]

The vitamin/health food industry is not exactly known for its scientifically controlled double blind studies.

When you think about it Vit D will do no favors to the Vitamin/supplement industry

or the Pharmaceutical industry... it will put them all out of business

because everything changes when people are Vit D sufficient

The majority ( imvho ) will just not NEED xyz & Z

My position is that if you do not make sure your loved ones are D sufficient

YOU really do not love them ( again imvho )

Here are two later and must see vids

Vit D is such a moving field
that the number of studies just in the last 12 mths
are enormous





and then




Motorway

 

[prawn_86]

Do you work for a co that sells Vitamin D motorway?

Seriously though i have always thought a light tan is healthy