Asylum Seekers Crash on Christmas Island

[Mofra]

Why can't those Afghan cowards stay and fight the Tailban instead of our Aussie soldiers fighting their battles for them.

What a ridiculous argument. You going to label all Jews as "cowards" as they didn't fight the Nazis effectively?
You want to arm civilians to allow a perpetual state of warfare in a country - you don't think that will further entice people to leave, making the problem worse? You also might need to check the country of origin as well - I beleive that a high proportion were from Iran in this instance.

FWIW Aussie soldiers aren't there to wipe out the Taliban - it's a training mission to create an effective Afghan military force to take care of their own affairs.

 

[noco]

There is no doubt in most Australians minds that the Gillard/Rudd Labor Government should take full resposibility for the tragic loss of life due to their asylum seeker policy. They should both resign.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...blamed-for-wreck/story-fn59niix-1225971755329

 

[Mofra]

i think the story in this is why no action from the navy?

the boat imho should have been intercepted, the naval boat was in eyesight of the refugee boat. you cant tell me they had no idea the boat was there.

That is a story in itself - boats are normally intercepted earlier and the people transferred to another vessel for passage onto the Island, or towed away for dangerous areas.

The two RIBs deployed had no chance of interception/recovery.

 

[noco]

What a ridiculous argument. You going to label all Jews as "cowards" as they didn't fight the Nazis effectively?
You want to arm civilians to allow a perpetual state of warfare in a country - you don't think that will further entice people to leave, making the problem worse? You also might need to check the country of origin as well - I beleive that a high proportion were from Iran in this instance.

FWIW Aussie soldiers aren't there to wipe out the Taliban - it's a training mission to create an effective Afghan military force to take care of their own affairs.

Mofra, there is no comparison to be made between the Jews and Afghans. There were Polish Jews, German Jews and Russian Jews. The Germans went on ethnic cleansing by sending millions of Jews to the gas chambers. The jews had no country of their own untill after the WW11 when the current Jewish state was formed. The Afghans have their own country and 'democratic' government.

Some of our Aussies may be in Afghanistan to train their army but the majority are are in combat conditions hence the loss of Aussie diggers. Those young Afghan asylum seekers arriving in Australia should be at home being trained by the Aussies in order for our fellows to come home.

So you see Mofra, you've got it all wrong ole mate.

 

[Mofra]

Mofra, there is no comparison to be made between the Jews and Afghans. There were Polish Jews, German Jews and Russian Jews. The Germans went on ethnic cleansing by sending millions of Jews to the gas chambers. The jews had no country of their own untill after the WW11 when the current Jewish state was formed. The Afghans have their own country and 'democratic' government.

So they were a people within their own country?
Exactly the same as the many tribes who live under the loose definition of country that make up modern Afghanistan. Of course, I'm not sure semantics are coming into it if you want civilians to fight against the Pashtun-dominated Taliban (ignoring the fact that a militia of poorly trained civilians would be anhialated against any sort of well-trained and armed force).

Some of our Aussies may be in Afghanistan to train their army but the majority are are in combat conditions hence the loss of Aussie diggers.

Absolutely wrong noco, they are there to train the Afghans and form battalions who are able to operate autonomously. This does involve combined combat operations which is why so many of our training force see so much front line action. The mission is to train them, there is no secondary mission to "green" some areas as an Australian force.

Those young Afghan asylum seekers arriving in Australia should be at home being trained by the Aussies in order for our fellows to come home.

Not all are suitable, and many who are Pastun who reject the Taliban cannot fight as they wont be taken by armed forces unwilling to let possible double-agents into the Afghan military. Not sure how that effects the Iraqi & Iranian asylum seekers though that made up the bulk of passengers on the doomed vessel though.

So you see Mofra, you've got it all wrong ole mate.

Given your mistakes above noco, I'd suggest you have a bit more research to do

 

[noco]

How the worm has turned. Beasley and Faulkner accused the Howard Government for the loss of life on the Siev X in 2001 but the lefties will protect Gillard and Rudd by blaming the Navy for the Christmas Island tragedy.

http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermai..._the_same_questions_it_once_put/#commentsmore

 

[noco]

So they were a people within their own country?
Exactly the same as the many tribes who live under the loose definition of country that make up modern Afghanistan. Of course, I'm not sure semantics are coming into it if you want civilians to fight against the Pashtun-dominated Taliban (ignoring the fact that a militia of poorly trained civilians would be anhialated against any sort of well-trained and armed force).


Absolutely wrong noco, they are there to train the Afghans and form battalions who are able to operate autonomously. This does involve combined combat operations which is why so many of our training force see so much front line action. The mission is to train them, there is no secondary mission to "green" some areas as an Australian force.


Not all are suitable, and many who are Pastun who reject the Taliban cannot fight as they wont be taken by armed forces unwilling to let possible double-agents into the Afghan military. Not sure how that effects the Iraqi & Iranian asylum seekers though that made up the bulk of passengers on the doomed vessel though.


Given your mistakes above noco, I'd suggest you have a bit more research to do

So are you saying, if Australia was invaded by a foreign country, Australian citizens consisting of our indigenous people, who have so many different tribes, Jews, Muslims, Roman Catholics, Prodestants, Greenies, Chinese, Italian and any other naturalized Australains form other countries should not be conscripted into the Australian Army? We are now a multicultural country with a lot more differerent races and cultures than Afghansitan will ever have. Do you see Chinese, Australians or any other multi cultural races living in Afghanistan.
I think your argument has been shot to pieces.

 

[sails]

i think the story in this is why no action from the navy?

the boat imho should have been intercepted, the naval boat was in eyesight of the refugee boat. you cant tell me they had no idea the boat was there.

the tragedy of these deaths is obvious. i think 11 of the survivors were under 18.

what may be coming out in the future is whether it was entirely avoidable.

no one can figure out what the inaction of the navy was all about.. everyone including them fully realise the wild weather and the dangers of trying to land on christmas island..

Could it be the naval boat was already full of passengers from the last boat intercepted?

These boats have been coming in steadily for quite a while - the media seem to have chosen not to report the frequency of the arrivals. When the number of boats peaked during Howard's time, it was constantly headline news. It seems strange that the mainline media have been so silent about this.

Here are a few reports with the help of google - I doubt it covers every boat arrival though:

12th Nov 2010: Boat stopped carrying 39 asylum seekers

17th Nov 2010: Asylum boat carrying 118 stopped

27th Nov 2010: Three more asylum seeker boats arrive with 100 people

30th Nov 2010: Border authorities have intercepted a boat carrying about 63 asylum seekers north of Christmas Island.

2nd Dec 2010: Boat carrying 100 people stopped near Christmas Island

11th Dec 2010: BORDER authorities have intercepted two boats carrying more than 100 people near the Ashmore Islands.

Below is a chart and a spreadsheet show clearly how the boat arrivals have severely increased in the last couple of years under labor's border policy (or lack of). And this information only includes data to 23rd Sept, 2010. There have been more arrivals since then.

It is sad that it takes a tragedy such as this with unnecessary loss of life to become headline news again. I sincerely hope the government will toughen up on their border policies to prevent people smugglers profiting in this way and endangering the lives of other people in their flimsy boats.





http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/sp/boatarrivals.htm#_Toc233686296

and

In 2008, Kevin Rudd's immigration minister Chris Evans softened the policy - and the rhetoric - yet again. The supposed humanitarian case has won, but now asylum-seekers are rushing our borders again, with 190 boats and 9188 people intercepted since Evans's move.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...m-seekers-at-bay/story-e6frg6z6-1225961715172

 

[Sean K]

That is a story in itself - boats are normally intercepted earlier and the people transferred to another vessel for passage onto the Island, or towed away for dangerous areas.

The two RIBs deployed had no chance of interception/recovery.

We probably know the moment they leave Indonesia actually.

There will be some serious questions asked within I feel.

 

[Happy]

How the worm has turned. Beasley and Faulkner accused the Howard Government for the loss of life on the Siev X in 2001 but the lefties will protect Gillard and Rudd by blaming the Navy for the Christmas Island tragedy.

http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermai..._the_same_questions_it_once_put/#commentsmore

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8184067

…

"We should be bringing people from Indonesia ourselves," Ms Curr said.
"Why do we force them into the boats? We know there are people there - 2500 ... we could handle these people with ease."

…

I’ve seen these comments will come one day more than ten years ago.

Why stop there?

Maybe Australian Government should set Illegal Refuge Pick Up Stations in all countries that are likely to have people wishing illegally come to Australia?

 

[noco]

It has become a mute point in all political circles at this stage to remain silent on the tragedy at Christmas Island, but Andrew Bolt raises a valid point, "how long it go on without some action".


http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermai...time_to_say_these_policies_kill/#commentsmore

 

[Mofra]

So are you saying, if Australia was invaded by a foreign country, Australian citizens consisting of our indigenous people, who have so many different tribes, Jews, Muslims, Roman Catholics, Prodestants, Greenies, Chinese, Italian and any other naturalized Australains form other countries should not be conscripted into the Australian Army? We are now a multicultural country with a lot more differerent races and cultures than Afghansitan will ever have. Do you see Chinese, Australians or any other multi cultural races living in Afghanistan.
I think your argument has been shot to pieces.

If this argument made any coherent sense or was in any way related to the issue of asylum seekers I would respond to it.

 

[Mofra]

It is sad that it takes a tragedy such as this with unnecessary loss of life to become headline news again. I sincerely hope the government will toughen up on their border policies to prevent people smugglers profiting in this way and endangering the lives of other people in their flimsy boats.

Would make far less difference than actually working with Indonesia to process applications faster from there - successive governments have made policy ****-backwards to try and make it politically palatable.
The Regional Processing centre is a good idea for the long term but would take years to implement. Workign with Indonesia would be much faster to setup and would cut the supply to the peopel smugglers at the source.

 

[noco]

If this argument made any coherent sense or was in any way related to the issue of asylum seekers I would respond to it.

It certainly is related to asylum seekers and by your own admission, you don't have the answer.

 

[Calliope]

We can't blame the Navy for failing to detect and stop this boat in bad weather. The Navy is woefully under-manned. It is so bad that they have to almost close down during the Xmas period. It would be difficult for a female sailor, with children, working from home (whatever that means) to monitor a boat on the high seas.

A more feminised navy is working beautifully, as long as you don’t mind it closing shop when the babysitter doesn’t show:


NAVY chiefs battling a staffing crisis have taken the unprecedented step of ordering a two-month shutdown over Christmas, and have told personnel with child-care problems that they can work from home.

The navy has also ordered all ships not deployed on operations home for Christmas to try to combat a 2020 shortfall in trained personnel.

In addition, the number of sailors forced to stay on board ships docked in their home port on “duty watch” as sentries will be reduced from previous levels of 15 to 20 people to a skeleton staff.

Instead sensors and alarms will be used to guard the ships, with the ultimate aim being to do away with the need for any people at all.

Navy chiefs say the drastic measures are part of a plan to combat recruitment problems by creating a more family-friendly environment.

All local commanders have also been ordered to allow personnel affected by the ABC Learning child-care crisis more flexible working arrangements - and to work from home if necessary - until they have found alternative care.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...back_and_attack_us_when_the_babys_in_day_care

 

[pilots]

Change of Government?

I think you will find that this is the end of J Dillard, the back room boys that RUN the Labour party are not happy after seeing her get booed on the Oprah show, now with this as well, her days are over, who is next in line?????

 

[sails]

Would make far less difference than actually working with Indonesia to process applications faster from there - successive governments have made policy ****-backwards to try and make it politically palatable.
The Regional Processing centre is a good idea for the long term but would take years to implement. Workign with Indonesia would be much faster to setup and would cut the supply to the peopel smugglers at the source.

Mofra, if that would solve the problem, that's great. As long as they have their papers to prove who they are and that they don't have nasty criminal histories.

Maybe then P&O could do runs between Indonesia and Australia with the successful applicants who have been properly checked out.. Would likely be cheaper than paying people smugglers and much safer too.

Drowning is a terrible way to die and everything should be done to stop the smugglers from making these risky trips possible to unvetted people.

However, I'm not sure that this current government is suitable to set up such a scheme as they seem to struggle to get anything right - confidence is slipping daily, IMO. Setting up another "committee" smacks of yet another cop out and ducking for cover.

 

[Julia]

I think you will find that this is the end of J Dillard, the back room boys that RUN the Labour party are not happy after seeing her get booed on the Oprah show, now with this as well, her days are over, who is next in line?????

She was booed on the Oprah show? Really? By Oprah's American fans, or a local Australian audience? Do you have a link to this?

Setting up another "committee" smacks of yet another cop out and ducking for cover.

Agree entirely. By seeking to include the Opposition in her committee, she is seeking to dilute her responsibility. The Opposition are quite right imo to have nothing to do with it, thus preserving their right to hold the government to account.

Rob Oakeshott has today been very critical of this 'committee', saying that any information should be made public as it comes to hand and there is no need for it to be filtered through a committee. He quoted a rumour which he says is circulating widely that the government actually ordered the Navy not to see this boat, thus ensuring the disaster that did occur.

That sounds a bit far fetched, but perhaps it's possible. Certainly the government seems totally impotent to alter the flow of boats, to the increasing anger of much of the electorate, and I suppose they could figure a few dead asylum seekers are an appropriate sacrifice if their political capital were to improve as a result of fewer undertaking the risky voyage.

 

[pilots]

She was booed on the Oprah show? Really? By Oprah's American fans, or a local Australian audience? Do you have a link to this?


Agree entirely. By seeking to include the Opposition in her committee, she is seeking to dilute her responsibility. The Opposition are quite right imo to have nothing to do with it, thus preserving their right to hold the government to account.

Rob Oakeshott has today been very critical of this 'committee', saying that any information should be made public as it comes to hand and there is no need for it to be filtered through a committee. He quoted a rumour which he says is circulating widely that the government actually ordered the Navy not to see this boat, thus ensuring the disaster that did occur.

That sounds a bit far fetched, but perhaps it's possible. Certainly the government seems totally impotent to alter the flow of boats, to the increasing anger of much of the electorate, and I suppose they could figure a few dead asylum seekers are an appropriate sacrifice if their political capital were to improve as a result of fewer undertaking the risky voyage.

I would think it was the Australians, was on the radio here in Perth.

 

[-Bevo-]

She was booed on the Oprah show? Really? By Oprah's American fans, or a local Australian audience? Do you have a link to this?

The Aussie's booed her lol, can certianly hear it at 3:05 in link below.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...s/if_gillard_is_booed_even_by_the_oprah_crowd