Greece - Is it saveable?

[phantomcamel]

There are jitters about the impact Greece's debt has on the markets. Portugal, Spain, Italy & Portugal don't look much healthier.
Is Greece heading into the abyss or is it saveable?
"The SPIEGEL" reports that Europe is considering an European equivalent to the IWF to combat financial problems of their member states http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,682596,00.html (sorry, in German ), but this will not materialise until years to come.
Will Greece be saved by it's neighbours or are they likely to split from the EU?
Your thoughts!

 

[Mofra]

The bigger Euro economies share their currency with Greece and therefore (rightly or worngly) cannot let Greece fail. There is some clause in the EU constitution (article 122 from memory, could be wrong) that allows countries to assist each other in times of catostrophe, which could be used as a way to circumvent the normal bail out provisions that are set as a condition of joining the EU.

 

[So_Cynical]

Greece - is it save-able? ... who cares :dunno:

 

[c-unit]

you'd hope so, because the US is next!

 

[refined silver]

While Germany and others don't want to save it, they know Spain, Italy, etc are next if they don't (and UK and US but they are not so worried about that).

Also German (and other EU) banks hold a huge amount of Greek bonds. Heads I win, tails you lose

 

[Broadway]

Imo, these debt issues of smaller countries is baked into the markets. There's not alot more juice to squeeze from this issue, except maybe to stay short euro. But even here, the pros are likely out of most of their euro shorts already.

 

[Uncle Festivus]

you'd hope so, because the US is next!

Should that read UK? The UK will be the next debt defaulter.....

 

[doctorj]

Should that read UK? The UK will be the next debt defaulter.....

CDS spreads don't seem to indicate the markets are more concerned about the UK than Western Europe... It seems like all the anti-uk trading is taking place in the forex market.

This is probably due to the fact that the UK can and does issue most of its debt in a currency it controls unlike the case of Greece & the Euro. It's highly unlikely that the UK will default (Greece haven't defaulted either, despite all the press).

 

[Uncle Festivus]

CDS spreads don't seem to indicate the markets are more concerned about the UK than Western Europe... It seems like all the anti-uk trading is taking place in the forex market.

This is probably due to the fact that the UK can and does issue most of its debt in a currency it controls unlike the case of Greece & the Euro. It's highly unlikely that the UK will default (Greece haven't defaulted either, despite all the press).

It will default in that it will find it hard to service it's debts due to, um, it's high debts......faced with increasing taxes and cutting back services (a familiar theme globally now) the 'new normal' is austerity......esp when they don't actually produce much these days. The devaluing currency, pound, tells the sad story.

 

[doctorj]

It will default in that it will find it hard to service it's debts

Eh?

 

[Timmy]

It will default in that it will find it hard to service it's debts

WTF? Do we redefine words to suit preconceptions now?

 

[Dowdy]

The question is not "is it saveable?".

It should be "Should it be saved"

If it's saved it gives the other EU countries a free pass to invest recklessly with a guarantee to be saved if it goes the other way.

Not a great way to run a business and definitely not a way to run a country.

 

[phantomcamel]

The bigger Euro economies share their currency with Greece and therefore (rightly or worngly) cannot let Greece fail. There is some clause in the EU constitution (article 122 from memory, could be wrong) that allows countries to assist each other in times of catostrophe, which could be used as a way to circumvent the normal bail out provisions that are set as a condition of joining the EU.

Yes, but are France & Germany able to pull the rest of the EU out of the mud? If Greece is helped, then there might be others joining the line I think it is one of those "You damned if you do, you damned if you don't" situations. The news back from Europe certainly doesn't read encouraging...

 

[phantomcamel]

...the fact that the UK can and does issue most of its debt in a currency it controls unlike the case of Greece & the Euro. It's highly unlikely that the UK will default (Greece haven't defaulted either, despite all the press).

Do they really control their currency - i'm not really sure if anyone really controls there currency anymore?!

 

[phantomcamel]

Greece - is it save-able? ... who cares :dunno:

Melbourne

 

[phantomcamel]

It will default in that it will find it hard to service it's debts due to, um, it's high debts......faced with increasing taxes and cutting back services (a familiar theme globally now) the 'new normal' is austerity......esp when they don't actually produce much these days. The devaluing currency, pound, tells the sad story.

I'm with you... I think they will see a lot of more turmoil in Greece before anything gets better; the country has just come to about a full stop with strikes - I don't think the general public gets it yet how bad the situation is!

 

[Riddick]

I have a plan:

The greeks have been pretty hopeless for quite sometime (maybe since the spartans left the scene) but they do have a nice country, for those that have ever been there.

So:

1. declare bankruptcy.

2. engage an administrator.

3. have the administrator value the various assets encompassed by the national borders e.g. the acropolis, some of the islande etc.

4. sell those assets to raise the capital needed to pay off the debts.

5. pay off the debts.

6 draw a circle around those bits that are left and call that greece.

7. Then I can own santorini and move in with my friends, afford a couple of servants and so forth.

it's a win - win as far as I can see, so let's start the bidding heh?

 

[phantomcamel]

I have a plan:

The greeks have been pretty hopeless for quite sometime (maybe since the spartans left the scene) but they do have a nice country, for those that have ever been there.

So:

1. declare bankruptcy.

2. engage an administrator.

3. have the administrator value the various assets encompassed by the national borders e.g. the acropolis, some of the islande etc.

4. sell those assets to raise the capital needed to pay off the debts.

5. pay off the debts.

6 draw a circle around those bits that are left and call that greece.

7. Then I can own santorini and move in with my friends, afford a couple of servants and so forth.

it's a win - win as far as I can see, so let's start the bidding heh?

I would suggest to auction the assets on eBay... start with .99 cents - no reserve

 

[Riddick]

I would suggest to auction the assets on eBay... start with .99 cents - no reserve

yeh an ebay auction would be awesome.

maybe greece could have a telethon and get a bunch of has-beens, never- wases, never-will-be's, obscure 70's 'stars' and just plain old talentless oxygen thieves to spruik their wares to raise money, blankets and tinned goods.

A possible list of acts could include:

- The cast of friends fighting rabid lions in a spiked pit full of acid.
- Britney Spears being used as a Pinada
- lindsay lohan juggling chainsaws
- kylie minogue being force fed barbed wire.

just a thought.

 

[doctorj]

The question is not "is it saveable?".

It should be "Should it be saved"

Or does it need to be saved? Greek one year CDS spreads continue to narrow...