Proposed NEW Anti-Hoon Laws

[Aussiejeff]

Well, well, well.

Finally, government authorities are forced to make changes to their existing insipid anti-Hoon laws.

[size=+1]Hoons to face car crush law in crash wake[/size]
DAVID ROOD STATE POLITICAL REPORTER
January 23, 2010

REPEAT hoon drivers face having their cars crushed whoever wins this year's Victorian election, as the Opposition and State Government trade blows over who has the toughest anti-hoon policy.

The political stoush comes as funerals continued for the victims of last weekend's horrific Mill Park car smash, which claimed five young lives.

Opposition Leader Ted Baillieu yesterday morning announced that, if elected, he would change hoon laws so third-time offenders forfeited their cars and had them crushed.

Transport Accident Minister Tim Holding accused the Opposition of rushing out an ''ill-conceived policy'', but also said the Government would sell or crush the cars of repeat hoons in an announcement made just hours after Mr Baillieu's.

Under the Opposition policy, first-time hoon drivers would have their cars impounded for 30 days rather than the existing 48 hours, and drivers would be required to undertake a safe driving course.

''At the moment a 48-hour penalty doesn't work. You can hoon offend on a Friday and pick up the car on a Monday,'' Mr Baillieu said.

Vehicles would be crushed only after a court order was received and if they were owned outright, not leased from a third party, Mr Baillieu said.

He said many young male drivers regarded hoon driving violations - which includes offences such as street racing, failure to have proper control of a vehicle and excessive speed - as a ''badge of honour''.

Almost 10,000 cars have been impounded under Victoria's hoon laws.

Under current laws police can apply to the courts following second or third hoon offences to have a car immobilised for three months or forfeited permanently.

Just three hours after the Opposition policy launch, Mr Holding revealed that the Government too would crush the vehicles of repeat offenders, under stricter circumstances.

But he denied the Government move was a reaction to the Opposition, accusing Mr Baillieu of seeking headlines through ''political opportunism'' in the wake of the Mill Park accident.

Mr Holding said the Government's changes to hoon laws would see a small number of cars crushed when there was clear ownership of the vehicle and illegal modifications had been made.

In most cases the cars of third-time offenders would be confiscated and sold, he said, and any proceeds would be used to help support the victims of road trauma.

About 300 mourners yesterday attended the funeral of 17-year-old Matt Lister, a victim of the Mill Park accident.

The funeral for the drunk driver involved in the accident, Steven Johnstone, and his half-brother Will Te-Whare was held earlier this week.

With AAP

http://www.theage.com.au/national/hoons-to-face-car-crush-law-in-crash-wake-20100122-mqro.html

From my understanding and what I remember with my old timer's memory from the local TV news last night, the new laws are proposed to be:

1st offence - 1 week impoundment

2nd offence - 3 mths? impoundment

3rd offence - SELL vehicle at auction if roadworthy / in standard condition, with proceeds towards roads / safety etc (I believe the offender may have the right to purchase their vehicle back at the full selling price if they wish!) or vehicle WILL BE CRUSHED if it has been illegally modified in any way, unroadworthy or badly damaged.

No-one who owns a stolen car that is subsequently caught in hoon activity will be affected by these new laws.

In general, I applaud these proposed changes, especially the 3rd offence law. If you are so dumb as to be happy losing your wheels for up to 3mths and even more dumber to be caught after that, so be it. Crush the bugger.

Discuss?

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I don't agree with all these new speed limits and radar guns that pick you up just 1k over the limit.

Hoons deserve to be punished but the ordinary bloke who can drive or ride safely at 160kph in the middle of nowhere gets punished.

Yes punish city hoons, or people who hoon at important crossroads like Moonie, and get in the way of me driving from Townsville to Melbourne in a day.

gg

 

[UBIQUITOUS]

Its a start but unfortunately too many of these hoons are being crushed in their cars, along with some innocent passengers.

Why won't the government ban high powered vehicles for those below the age of 25?

Most of those high powered vehicles are made in Australia by Holden and Ford. Would the government really want for the vast majority of young drivers to drive foreign built cars?

The government would rather young Australians lost their lives than allow the Australian car industry to decline further. Disgusting.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Why won't the government ban high powered vehicles for those below the age of 25?

AFAIK, practically ALL modern vehicles (even so-called "low-powered" 4 cyl or diesel versions) are capable of "breaking traction" from a standing start or exceeding 160kph top speed. As others have noted elsewhere in various other forums, "low-powered" vehicles today are 2-3 times more powerful than "low-powered" vehicles of yesteryears. I think my old man's 1961 vintage 1.4 ltr, 4 cyl Vauxhall "Victor" that I got my full licence with (after a mere 3mths on "L"'s + 12 mths on a single "P"... ) had around 50BHP at the flywheel @4,600rpm. It took FOREVER to get to 60 mph (or around 100kph).

This observation is confirmed in Road & Track's first full test, conducted in 1958,

...which praised the Victor's interior and luggage space, the easy-shifting gearbox with synchronized first (still something of a novelty), and overall familiar American feel.

Acceleration was lethargic to say the least; the magazine reporting 0-60 mph taking nearly 26 seconds and the standing quarter-mile 22.6. At least fuel economy was good for the 2,470-pound test weight at 23-29 miles per U.S. gallon.

Now THAT is what I call s...l...o...w... Nevertheless, it WAS fun to drive. You had to thrash it to get anywhere, which is part of the fun of driving a very low powered vehicle - you feel like you are driving hard but in reality, you are going v. slow!!! hehe.

Most of those high powered vehicles are made in Australia by Holden and Ford. Would the government really want for the vast majority of young drivers to drive foreign built cars?

The government would rather young Australians lost their lives than allow the Australian car industry to decline further. Disgusting.

Not so sure about that comment either, mate. I've seen plenty of news reports involving hoons wiping out in Porsches, Jap Turbos etc....

I wouldn't mind seeing licencing requirements toughened up to include basic psychological profiling before "L" plates are issued and a more thorough test before "P" plates are issued. Might weed out a few undesirables to start with. Not that that would stop 'em stealing / borrowing someone elses wheels.

Oh well, there's always the possibility of returning to 1 horsepower vehicles....think of the employment opportunities!! Did I hear some of you protesting "Neigh!"??

 

[UBIQUITOUS]

Not so sure about that comment either, mate. I've seen plenty of news reports involving hoons wiping out in Porsches, Jap Turbos etc....

Thanks for your input. I'm not a 'car person' so don't know my horsepower from my horsesh*t

However, most of the reports I have read regarding hooning fatalities have been Fords or Holdens. I would be very interested to see some stats on fatalities by vehicle make/model and driver age.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Thanks for your input. I'm not a 'car person' so don't know my horsepower from my horsesh*t

However, most of the reports I have read regarding hooning fatalities have been Fords or Holdens. I would be very interested to see some stats on fatalities by vehicle make/model and driver age.

Great timing Ubi!!! Here's one from this mornings news rags..

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...00kmh-over-limit/story-e6frf7jx-1225822749428

 

[UBIQUITOUS]

Great timing Ubi!!! Here's one from this mornings news rags..

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...00kmh-over-limit/story-e6frf7jx-1225822749428

...but look at the 5 'related coverage' links on that page. 1 Falcon, 1 Commodore and 3 unknown vehicles:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...orror-crash-site/story-e6frf7kf-1225820652996

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,25648976-5003500,00.html


Personally, I don't think sub 25 year olds should be allowed to drive anything above a 2litre engined car. It wouldn't be a bad thing for the environment and their finances either.

 

[MACCA350]

There are already power to weight restriction on P platers, problem is many disregard this and in doing so break the law. It's almost impossible for police to know the power to weight ratio of a modified vehicle without testing it, and with many sleepers on the road they'll only find out when it's too late.

You can have the best laws in the world but without the ability to effectively enforce them they're not worth the paper they are written on. In the end it's not the vehicle that controls the driver, people make stupid decisions and no laws can change that.

cheers

 

[Mr J]

I don't agree with all these new speed limits and radar guns that pick you up just 1k over the limit.

Hoons deserve to be punished but the ordinary bloke who can drive or ride safely at 160kph in the middle of nowhere gets punished.

Come on GG, speeding is speeding, and all conditions are the same .

Why won't the government ban high powered vehicles for those below the age of 25?

Many hoons are over 25. The media doesn't exactly provide balanced coverage.

The government would rather young Australians lost their lives than allow the Australian car industry to decline further. Disgusting.

Banning reasonably-powered Holdens and Fords won't make a difference, I think that shows that you don't understand the issue. You're also proposing to punish the majority because a minority are irresponsible.

Personally, I don't think sub 25 year olds should be allowed to drive anything above a 2litre engined car.

And what if I told you that a 2L car could be faster than a 6L car? I don't think you should be making comments on car performance without being at least basically informed.

Age and speed aren't the problems. For those who think they are, maybe you should take a look at Germany's statistics.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Come on GG, speeding is speeding, and all conditions are the same .



Many hoons are over 25. The media doesn't exactly provide balanced coverage.



Banning reasonably-powered Holdens and Fords won't make a difference, I think that shows that you don't understand the issue. You're also proposing to punish the majority because a minority are irresponsible.



And what if I told you that a 2L car could be faster than a 6L car? I don't think you should be making comments on car performance without being at least basically informed.

Age and speed aren't the problems. For those who think they are, maybe you should take a look at Germany's statistics.

Even the NT has speed limits now.

I can drive an Arnage safer in woopwoop at 160kph than some 18yo or some 50 year old syphilitic bloody financial adviser playing with an iphone can drive a Lancer or a baby Merc in the city at 60kph.

gg

 

[UBIQUITOUS]

Age and speed aren't the problems. For those who think they are, maybe you should take a look at Germany's statistics.

Here are some stats on collision mortality rates. As a comparison I am looking at Australia, Canada and USA.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/m..._up_tru_or_van_percap-up-truck-van-per-capita

Australia has 2.5x the mortality rate of Canada (similar population densities), but Oz has far better driving conditions (less ice and mountains)

Australia has almost the mortality rate as the USA, but with 10x less population density.

Also note that Germany has 4x the mortality rate of the UK where <100bhp vehicles are the norm.

I'm sure its due to a combination of factors - high powered vehicles for the young (the US and Canada have moved to smaller, slower vehicles over the years. Poor driving instruction, deterrents not strong enough. Maybe Bathhurst has a lot to answer for - young want to be Brocky or Lowndes.

Then again, maybe its just the Australian mentality towards death on the roads "She's a good un, I'll be alright"

 

[Smurf1976]

With the exception of vehicles carrying or towing a heavy load, any modern vehicle (car, 4WD, van, ute, truck, bike, even a bus) can easily exceed the speed limit on just about any road if the driver so desires. Even a 4 cyl hatch has literally twice the power output of the first cars made in Australia by Holden, and it weighs less too.

It is technically pretty simple to limit maximum speeds but anyone interested in modifying their car will quickly work out how to by-pass any such limiter just as they modify all sorts of engine controls at present so as to increase power output.

I can't see any really practical way of limiting speeds beyond catching offending motorists after they've already committed the crime.

The only thing that might work is to fit a GPS tracking device to every car and have enough roadside detection stations to catch and fine anyone without such a unit operating. That's a massive political and logistical exercise however, and one that many will point to being an invasion of privacy.

 

[Mr J]

Australia has 2.5x the mortality rate of Canada (similar population densities), but Oz has far better driving conditions (less ice and mountains)

And I'd bet Canada has no lack of "high-powered" vehicles. Suggests to me that power isn't the issue.

Australia has almost the mortality rate as the USA, but with 10x less population density.

I don't have figures on hand, but I'm pretty sure rural areas have higher rates of fatal accidents than urban areas.

Also note that Germany has 4x the mortality rate of the UK where <100bhp vehicles are the norm.

That is a little strange, but there's no comparison of fatalities versus distance travelled. Germany is larger with a great road system, so I would guess that they also have a higher rate of travel. London also has, what, a fifth the English population? Lower fatality rate plus heavy use of public transport. It doesn't explain such a large difference, but I'm sure there's far more to it.

I mentioned Germany because to counter the speed and power argument. We can't simply say that these crashes are caused by high speed and "fast" cars. I'd like to see the statistics of Australian crashes - I'd bet most are close to the speed limit and do not involve "fast" cars.

I'm sure its due to a combination of factors - high powered vehicles for the young (the US and Canada have moved to smaller, slower vehicles over the years.

We've moved smaller too, but not slower, and neither have the US. Smaller does not mean slower, and cars rarely get slower over time.

Then again, maybe its just the Australian mentality towards death on the roads "She's a good un, I'll be alright"

Blaming people is a good start. Don't blame the cars, don't blame the roads (well, not always).

 

[stockGURU]

Why won't the government ban high powered vehicles for those below the age of 25?

Instead of restricting people's freedom, how about having punishments that actually make people think twice about driving like idiots?

For anyone driving more than 100km/hr over the speed limit I'd impose the following punishments:

First offence: Loss of license for a year and a $2,500 fine.
Second offence: Loss of license for 5 years and a $10,000 fine.
Third offence: Loss of licence for life, $25,000 fine, forfeiture of vehicle and 12 months in prison.

The only thing that works are real deterrents. Hoons just laugh at the law otherwise.

 

[UBIQUITOUS]

Instead of restricting people's freedom, how about having punishments that actually make people think twice about driving like idiots?


The only thing that works are real deterrents. Hoons just laugh at the law otherwise.

Restricting people's freedom? Lets not get melodramatic here. A car is a form of transport. THAT'S ALL. It is not a human right to drive fast/powerful vehicles. I've yet to hear of 22 year old's life being negatively impacted because he/she drives a Corolla instead of a XR6.

It's time these playthings were left for those old enough to respect the power which that they wield. I would guess that there are more irresponsible drivers aged 20 than aged 30. Yes some mature/sensible youngsters will miss out, but thats life as laws cannot be made to suit everybody.

How about making comprehensive insurance compulsory on high powered/fast vehicles, and have insurance premiums at $5k per year for drivers below a certain age - not necessarily 25 years old....maybe 22.

I agree with having a stronger deterrent though, just like drink driving. Speeding at >30k above the speed limit results in instant 18month ban.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Instead of restricting people's freedom, how about having punishments that actually make people think twice about driving like idiots?

For anyone driving more than 100km/hr over the speed limit I'd impose the following punishments:

First offence: Loss of license for a year and a $2,500 fine.
Second offence: Loss of license for 5 years and a $10,000 fine.
Third offence: Loss of licence for life, $25,000 fine, forfeiture of vehicle and 12 months in prison.

The only thing that works are real deterrents. Hoons just laugh at the law otherwise.

Driving at 200kph is not that much fun, so I think the punishment is way over the top for that one.

I do hope you are talking about city limits.

gg

 

[gav]

No-one who owns a stolen car that is subsequently caught in hoon activity will be affected by these new laws.

Tell that to this poor Doctor in Perth. He took his Lamborghini in for a service and the mechanic got done doing 60KM over the limit and the Doctor's car was impounded for 28 days! And his application to have his car returned was declined!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/07/2787603.htm?site=perth

 

[Mr J]

Restricting people's freedom?

Of course it is. It doesn't seem it means much to you, but it does to others. Would you like to have any of your pleasures restricted because others don't appreciate it?

A car is a form of transport

For many yes. For many it is a passion. Some people fish, others golf, and some people like cars.

I've yet to hear of 22 year old's life being negatively impacted because he/she drives a Corolla instead of a XR6.

"She took one look at my car...".

It's time these playthings were left for those old enough to respect the power which they wield. I would guess that there are more irresponsible drivers aged 20 than aged 30.

One of the groups at highest risk on the road are the 40-50 year olds who buy a motorbike.

How about making comprehensive insurance compulsory on high powered/fast vehicles, and have insurance premiums at $5k per year for drivers below a certain age - not necessarily 25 years old....maybe 22.

This sounds like the politician's answer of taxing the problem. Yes, let's charge every 22 year old $5k for their pride and joy because a minority give them a bad reputation. I don't see any sense in this.

I agree with having a stronger deterrent though, just like drink driving. Speeding at >30k above the speed limit results in instant 18month ban.

If we were to apply your suggestion, someone driving across the Sydney Harbour Bridge at 90km/h in the dead of night would lose their licence for 18 months. Someone driving through a school zone at 60 would not (unless there's a specific rule that I'm not aware of). It's senseless to apply rules in this fashion. None of this addresses the cause of the problems, and simply seeks to limit them through punishment. It hasn't shown to be effective yet, so why expect it to be more effective in the future?

 

[GumbyLearner]

Well, well, well.

Finally, government authorities are forced to make changes to their existing insipid anti-Hoon laws.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/hoons-to-face-car-crush-law-in-crash-wake-20100122-mqro.html

From my understanding and what I remember with my old timer's memory from the local TV news last night, the new laws are proposed to be:

1st offence - 1 week impoundment

2nd offence - 3 mths? impoundment

3rd offence - SELL vehicle at auction if roadworthy / in standard condition, with proceeds towards roads / safety etc (I believe the offender may have the right to purchase their vehicle back at the full selling price if they wish!) or vehicle WILL BE CRUSHED if it has been illegally modified in any way, unroadworthy or badly damaged.

No-one who owns a stolen car that is subsequently caught in hoon activity will be affected by these new laws.

In general, I applaud these proposed changes, especially the 3rd offence law. If you are so dumb as to be happy losing your wheels for up to 3mths and even more dumber to be caught after that, so be it. Crush the bugger.

Discuss?

At least the proceeds from the crushed cars (after any outstanding debts are satisfied) go to the victims of crime. That ain't such a bad thing.

 

[UBIQUITOUS]

Of course it is. It doesn't seem it means much to you, but it does to others. Would you like to have any of your pleasures restricted because others don't appreciate it?

I love to drink and drive. That's my pleasure. How dare the authorities restrict it.

For many yes. For many it is a passion. Some people fish, others golf, and some people like cars.

Some have a passion for guns. Can you please provide a link to a news report with a heading such as: '6 teenagers die from fishing too much' ?

"She took one look at my car...".

Try using your personality instead of a lump of machinery. It still works on the girls worth having.

One of the groups at highest risk on the road are the 40-50 year olds who buy a motorbike.

'6 teenagers die from crowding onto a motorbike and riding it at speed' ?

This sounds like the politician's answer of taxing the problem. Yes, let's charge every 22 year old $5k for their pride and joy because a minority give them a bad reputation. I don't see any sense in this.

F**K pride and joy. This is a serious issue here. Perhaps those 22 year olds will go and find something else to be proud off, like getting their priorities right.

If we were to apply your suggestion, someone driving across the Sydney Harbour Bridge at 90km/h in the dead of night would lose their licence for 18 months. Someone driving through a school zone at 60 would not (unless there's a specific rule that I'm not aware of).

Yep. One rule for all. As for school zones, due to the variable speed limits at different times, this is why I am not saying 20kph over the limit.

It's senseless to apply rules in this fashion. None of this addresses the cause of the problems, and simply seeks to limit them through punishment. It hasn't shown to be effective yet, so why expect it to be more effective in the future?

The reason that the current deterrents haven't been effective yet is because the punishments aren't tough enough. "Hey, I've got zero points on my license, so I'm allowed to get caught speeding 4 times before I get banned, unless its a double demerit points long weekend. Then I will speed no more than twice"

Youths have got it easy these days. Their bleatings about freedoms are laughable. Its about time they were reminded about the harsh realities of life.