Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Storm Financial Group

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Harleyquin said:
Hello The Sponge we did get sucked into the storm in Mackay and to lose almost everything in your later years is a living hell.

Ron Jelich is coming in for his share of criticism after appearing in court and giving evidence. I give the man credit to come forward and give his side of the story. What I want to know is where are all the other advisors? Why haven't they all been called up to explain their actions?

When we joined storm we had to fill out a personal profile and choose the level of risk we were prepared to take. The box that we ticked and signed said 'I am prepared to accept volatility if in the medium to long term the investment growth is higher and the risks over that term are minimal or eliminated.' It was our advisor who asked us to sign this paperwork and it was our advisor who gave us his advice which ultimately destroyed our finances. Why were we asked to choose a level of risk if they were never going to adhere to our wishes.

I want him to stand up in court, explain his actions and give us his side of the story like Ron Jelich has done. Are there any other ex stormies who want their advisors to do the same?
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Mate , with respect , you are missing the point.

The majority of "advisers" who advised you guys are arch muppets themselves, so getting them to appear in court is as useful as asking a one legged man to line dance.

You were badly advised. Full stop.

gg
 
You're right GG we were badly advised. My point is - this was supposed to be a legitimate outfit and had all the bits of paper from the powers that be. Our advisors were also professional financial planners in their own right, some weren't I know but many were, and they should have had the morals and ethics in place to give us the sort of investment we asked for instead of the lies and now we have the lies they still need to get up there and tell us their side of the story.

If they were muppets too so be it but they were financially educated financial planner muppets and they weren't muppets paying for advice as we were - that's a very important difference don't you agree. When EC had his site up and running and we were all complaining about our losses his only comeback was 'I've lost money too' big deal, he was the advisor and knew and took the risks, we didn't although in hindsight it would appear that way to those who knew better.

Did all the other planners ever read the huge volume called the storm Statement of Advice, I think it was called 'Making Money' or something similar. Making money disappear sounds more like it to me. We have every right to be angry and to vent our anger we have been the victims of major fraud and in hindsight it's very easy to see what we should or shouldn't have done but it's not going to do any of us any good to continue to go there.
 
I believe it was a fine performance from the BoQ today, looks like they place much faith in the details provided by professional financial planners. The papers will be interesting tomorrow.

On another note, does anybody know how the offers from the CBA are going ?

I had a call from my Stormer mate tonight, I believe from the timber of his voice and his general demeanor of desperation, he has had no offer of settlement.

It makes me wonder how the initiators of this debacle can soundly sleep at night or maybe they can't.:nono:
 
Harleyquin said:
You're right GG we were badly advised. My point is - this was supposed to be a legitimate outfit and had all the bits of paper from the powers that be. Our advisors were also professional financial planners in their own right, some weren't I know but many were, and they should have had the morals and ethics in place to give us the sort of investment we asked for instead of the lies and now we have the lies they still need to get up there and tell us their side of the story.

If they were muppets too so be it but they were financially educated financial planner muppets and they weren't muppets paying for advice as we were - that's a very important difference don't you agree. When EC had his site up and running and we were all complaining about our losses his only comeback was 'I've lost money too' big deal, he was the advisor and knew and took the risks, we didn't although in hindsight it would appear that way to those who knew better.

Did all the other planners ever read the huge volume called the storm Statement of Advice, I think it was called 'Making Money' or something similar. Making money disappear sounds more like it to me. We have every right to be angry and to vent our anger we have been the victims of major fraud and in hindsight it's very easy to see what we should or shouldn't have done but it's not going to do any of us any good to continue to go there.
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I agree Harleyquin, back in the 80's I was taken in a scam by a financial entity and I have never trusted anyone ever again with my money or investments.

I am so glad you are on asf.

It wasn't around in my hour of need. I went through all the stages of grief, the anger can be exquisite. The guy who ripped me off is living it up still. No consequences.

Its just the way it is, unless Bernie Ripoll and the liquidators and ASIC can punish Cassimatis, the advisers and the banks, and bring real change to the investment environment. This needs to be without putting excess fees on blokes like me who lose their money effortlessly and make it just as effortlessly without paying some bastard to do it for me.

That is why I'm so dirty on SICAG.

They should be flaying the advisers and the Cassimates as well as the banks, as others will get drawn in to future scams like Storm.

gg
 
"Million-dollar Storm adviser almost came to blows"

"Former Storm Financial adviser Ron Jelich received more than $1 million in consultancy fees during his time with the failed advisory firm and almost came to blows with the company's co-founder Emmanuel Cassimatis over market forecasts."

Read more of this enlightening article by Michelle Singer in today's AFR.

Ron appears to be of quite a solid build, it is pleasing that the altercation didn't result in an exchange of blows.
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
They should be flaying the advisers and the Cassimates as well as the banks, as others will get drawn in to future scams like Storm.

gg
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gg, my Stormer mate I talked with tonight is really feeling down. He's really feeling conned and feels he was treated like a sitting wood duck. He's technically broke, no immediate hope of getting back into the market and is working his ar*se off to keep it all together. He's tired, angry, dirty with the world and feeling like he's been done over by all those he trusted.

He's told me he's going to beat all of this and knowing him I know somehow he will. I really hope he starts posting here and gives us all updates on how he'll come through.
 
Solly said:
gg, my Stormer mate I talked with tonight is really feeling down. He's really feeling conned and feels he was treated like a sitting wood duck. He's technically broke, no immediate hope of getting back into the market and is working his ar*se off to keep it all together. He's tired, angry, dirty with the world and feeling like he's been done over by all those he trusted.

He's told me he's going to beat all of this and knowing him I know somehow he will. I really hope he starts posting here and gives us all updates on how he'll come through.
Click to expand...

My mate, the subject of the original post on this thread has now got a job in Mackay and trusting in Scattini , just getting back to normal again.

It would be great if Storm victims, could join asf.

It would really empower them, and they are correct in not trusting advisers imho.

gg
 
Mr Ron Jelich is not a qualified finanical planner, the only reason he is talking is to cover his own ass. Of course he will state that he did not read the SOA's he was not required to - I bet he never signed one! Yet when the commission was being splashed around he'd be the first in the que. Ron will continue to defer blame and fault and be hanging around the storm action group he can't piss off like his mates cause he holds no qualifications - he needs to show he was against EC & co so he doesn't get trampled by the authorities.
 
I know how your Stormer mate is feeling Solly and so do all of the stormers we feel as though we have been conned out of everything we own. The lies that we were told by the advisors, they promised us that they knew what they were doing, the only thing they did was to do as they wanted we were just cash cows to storm and the banks and they worked in together to blow us all out of the water.

How can any genuine financial advisor be allowed by law to advise retirees to put their cash, home and superannuation on the line into a 'safe', 'risk free', 'we will look after your money and your house' investment and then lose it all.

I know stormers who were retired and earning a comfortable living on their storm investments. Now they have no home, no money and lining up at Centrelink for their pension every fortnight. Others have gone back to work, working two jobs to try and put food on the table and can barely afford that when all their money is being taken up paying interest only for the rest of their lives. I know others have had their problems in life but this problem is as big as it gets. When you lose everything, still have a debt and will pay interest only until you die . They are demoralised and there is no hope for anyone once they have retired and they have nothing. They know that they can at best now only survive it's not at all fair these people have worked and saved hard and tried to do the right thing and they have been swindled out of everything. I feel for the retirees.
 
"HOW a Rocky family lost $8 million"

"Kevin and Debbie Lock spent their lives building their wealth.

If they hadn't trusted Storm Financial, the Rockhampton family might still have their $8 million portfolio.

They trusted the financial advice company because it was backed by the pillars of Australia's banks.

One year after the company failed, Mr and Mrs Lock were left owing $188,000. They've told an inquiry into the Storm collapse that the banks are as much to blame for their loss."

More by Kieran Campbell in The Morning Bulletin here;

http://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/story/2009/10/24/how-a-rocky-family-lost-8-million/
 
Harleyquin, for the first time in this whole event I have become really concerned for my mate. He's usually a very deliberately calm person and looks at things from a very practical manner. I know his wife took things very badly in the beginning, I knew things were serious when I was talking to him on the phone earlier in the year and his wife was vomiting in the background.

It wasn't a pleasant thing to hear and I know there have been many tears shed since then and much angst felt. I know the calibre of these people, typical next door folk, they raised fine kids, live in a modest home in a down to earth suburb, drive a typical Aussie car, lend a hand to family and friends and are welcoming people. They knew Storm through its many incarnations and were clients for many years and were hoping for a modest comfortable retirement following the dream that they were sold and now this has happened.

My mate is still in disbelief that after all the reassurances that things would be fine with this strategy he now finds he's struggling to survive. He and his wife worked hard all their life and thought they would be looked after by the players in this saga. He was confident that Cassimatis and the CBA were rock solid in their offerings and the future would be secure. I now know the fees and commissions they paid to Storm and the bank, I'm quite shocked at the amounts and to now know where they have ended up.

I offer them support, kind words of encouragement, their other family members help them in many ways as well. But words wont give them back their house or a secure future. I've seen many cons and scams in my life both on and off shore, I've seen fraudsters, con men, thieves and criminals and have dodged the odd bullet that's come my way from these types. But in this Storm saga the main players aren't from a South East Asian bolier room scam or fronting a ponzi from the Caribbean, the main players are well known and some would say respected members of our community. This is what my mate finds so hard to understand, the main players are licenced and regulated in his own country.

The remedy for these Stormers is in the hands of the main players, it would be easier now for them now to step forward and to fess up to wrong doings. Wouldn't it be good to fast track a reasonable agreeable resolution. Where's the compassion ? Where's the leadership ? I know the Stormers aren't going to go away, I believe since the hearing has ramped up this has also fired them up even more. They may be only a small group of people that have been drastically affected, but this little group have family and friends that see what they are going through, they speak to others, headlines appear on newspapers and the media, forums, newsgroups, people talk and others become aware. The one thing that Aussies demand is a fair go and I believe that we will soon see some real progress. The real story will eventually come out, there are too many involved now to let this saga fade away.

I wish all the Stormers well, don't forget Stormers that there are many others you've never met or even know exist that are doing little things everyday to assist with a truthful legally endorsed outcome. Don't feel alone. :ninja::ninja::ninja:
 
"Storm strategy pits owners against investors, say staff"

"A BLOWTORCH awaits Emmanuel and Julie Cassimatis when they step back into the witness stand next week in the continuing inquiry into their failed advisory firm Storm Financial.

Once the courtroom action has come to a close, Mr Wilkins will huddle with Worrells liquidators Raj Khatri and Ivor Worrell to pore over the transcripts and draft a report for ASIC. It is considered highly likely that Worrells will recommend that charges be laid."

More by Anthony Marx in The Courier Mail here;

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,20797,26251400-3122,00.html
 
"Numbers wrong on Storm loan"

"Matthew Buchanan says he handled about 400 loans to Storm Financial clients by mid-2008. He agrees the loan documentation in the case was inconsistent."


"Loan approved based on errors"

"The co-owner of a Bank of Queensland branch in Townsville admitted on Friday the bank had approved a $320,000 loan for a retired couple, even though the documentation was contradictory and overstated their cash assets."

Read more by Mark Ludlow in The Australian Financial Review of October 24-25, 2009
 
Solly said:
"Storm strategy pits owners against investors, say staff"

"A BLOWTORCH awaits Emmanuel and Julie Cassimatis when they step back into the witness stand next week in the continuing inquiry into their failed advisory firm Storm Financial.

Once the courtroom action has come to a close, Mr Wilkins will huddle with Worrells liquidators Raj Khatri and Ivor Worrell to pore over the transcripts and draft a report for ASIC. It is considered highly likely that Worrells will recommend that charges be laid."

More by Anthony Marx in The Courier Mail here;

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,20797,26251400-3122,00.html
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Is there any requirement that people facing adverse findings through the Liquidator, Federal Inquiry and ASIC's investigations, stay within the Australian jurisdiction?

Can people facing adverse findings, for example, visit relatives who become suddenly ill in jurisdictions that do not have an extradition treaty with Australia?

Can people facing adverse findings, for example, travel on holidays to jurisdictions that do not have an extradition treaty with Australia?

Can people facing adverse findings, for example, visit places they have previously travelled to overseas to reminisce , jurisdictions that do not have an extradition treaty with Australia?

gg
 
Solly I would be very concerned for your mate and all of the stormers. The level of stress they have been under this year is more than enough to not only send them over the edge but stress is well known in the medical profession, and therefore the rest of us, to be a major cause of heart problems and all forms of cancer. The surface of the stormers problems hasn't even been scratched yet. Wait and see what happens in five years or so ...it won't be pleasant.
 
Solly said:
"HOW a Rocky family lost $8 million"

"Kevin and Debbie Lock spent their lives building their wealth.

If they hadn't trusted Storm Financial, the Rockhampton family might still have their $8 million portfolio.

They trusted the financial advice company because it was backed by the pillars of Australia's banks.

One year after the company failed, Mr and Mrs Lock were left owing $188,000. They've told an inquiry into the Storm collapse that the banks are as much to blame for their loss."

More by Kieran Campbell in The Morning Bulletin here;

http://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/story/2009/10/24/how-a-rocky-family-lost-8-million/
Click to expand...

I get rather tired of people like Kevin & Debbie Locke blaming everyone but themselves.
It's time that greedy people like them got in touch with reality.
Certainly, Storm Financial played a major part in their downfall. And the banks also contributed.
But what the Lockes don't mention is their own greed and outright stupidity when, after making their fortune through their own efforts in business, setting themselves up for life and never needing to work ever again, they went along to Storm and risked everything with a reckless and completely unnecessary plunge on one of the most dangerous of all investments - the stockmarket.
These people were not your average Storm investors who were 'just trying to build up a decent nest egg for retirement'. They had already accumulated an 8 million dollar fortune before they went to Storm.....they had already provided for their retirement in abundant measure.

I don't criticise people for trying to make their wealth grow - you'd be a fool not to. The value of your money gets eroded by inflation if you put it in the bank, and there's no capital growth. It's far more prudent to invest your capital in growth assets like residential real estate, where at least you can reasonably expect values and rental yields to increase by far more than the inflation rate.
The Lockes had 8 million dollars. 5 million of that invested in real estate with 5% yield would have given them a yearly income of a quarter of a million dollars, or almost one thousand dollars every week day of the year. Not only that, but at 10% average yearly capital growth, their 5 million investment would have increased in value by around half a million dollars a year. Even at half that growth rate, the yearly value increase is still a tidy sum.
And they still would have had another 3 million left over for a dabble in the stockmarket or anything else that took their fancy.
Was that not enough for these greedy people? Apparently it wasn't. So with dollar signs dancing in front of their eyes, they went to Storm and allowed themselves to become borrowed to the hilt, with gearing on gearing, in the foolish hope that the stock market would remain forever bullish.
They risked everything they owned to make more money they didn't need, by investing all their money, plus lots more that wasn't their's, into one of the most risky and volatile of all investments.
And now that's it's come crashing down, it's all somebody else's fault.
Well sorry Kevin & Debbie Locke, but the fault is not entirely somebody else's. It's time you had a look in the mirror.

I can and do feel quite sorry for the average Storm victim who was just trying to improve their financial position so they'd have a decent retirement.
But it find it more difficult to drum up any feelings of sympathy for wealthy people whose outfight greed caused them to get tied up in the debacle that was Storm Financial.
 
Julia said:
Bunyip, you beat me to it. You've said all that I would have.
Click to expand...


Yeah the post was a good one, and ignorance of one's responsibility to understand what they are investing into is no excuse.

But I hate it when people like bunyip say that the stockmarket is risky, there is risk, but losing everything is about as common as losing everything in housing, if you get good advice or know what to do.

The problem is that stormers
1. Had no clue what they were doing
2. Got lousy advice from a conman at best ( purchases were made in the interests of commission, no tailoring of plans to suit people's stage in life and inadequate contigency plans ).

I have never come across anybody who, with a non-geared diversified portfolio of directly owned shares, has lost everything.

In fact even though the market is still well down, there would be many like me who are actually back to where they were at the peak, through selling smartly and purchasing smartly, even though it was one of the most devastating sharemarket routs in a generation ( and perfectly managable by anyone with a contigency plan )

It's just in the case of Storm, ridiculously overgeared parcels of shares were sold to naive people who thought they were doing the right thing.

P.S.

Just like most Storm clients, they also probably did not know what their net worth was, their portfolio was $8 million, but they probably only had $3.5 million or so.

Even $3.5 million in shares at 4% fully franked gives a nice yearly income. And if managed well ( selling some as the market dipped and purchasing more when it started to look better, they would be very close to $3.5 million again.
 
I would totally disagree that the Rockhampton couple mentioned in previous posts were greedy. They were obviously very good business people and employed an accountant to look after their business affairs. As I understand it from reading the media, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it was their accountant who told them to invest in storm financial. That's what business people do they are so busy running their business that they employ expert finance people to take care of the financial side of the business. Once they retired they continued with this financial strategy. I fail to see how they can be called greedy simply because they invested with a financial planner. This is a free country and whether you have one hundred dollars or one hundred trillion to invest it doesn't matter, what matters is if you go to an accountant or a financial planner they should be accountable for their actions.

Why do we only have to earn enough money to live on? If you are able to use your financial resources to earn a significant amount of money per year there are many worthwhile charities in this country and overseas who you could support. Imagine being able to write out a cheque every year for half a million dollars for the Salvation Army or Cancer research, how good would that make you feel. There are many people the world over in dire need of life's basics, if you had the finances to support any of these you would feel that you are putting your hard earned to good use.

The bottom line here is all finance people should be accountable and at present they are not and this needs to change. Storm financial told their clients that they would sell high and buy low and their investments would be constantly monitored by their team of experts, what a good selling point, and that's what they charged for. They failed to do any of the things they promised. Whether this investment strategy or the share market is risky or not risky is an individual assessment of the situation depending on your knowledge of the subject and I see where contributors to this forum are also divided on whether this was a risky investment or not. I have been to other financial planners since storm and some dislike this strategy where others say there is nothing wrong with it. What apparently is important is that the investments are closely monitored, you sell high, you buy low and you know what you are doing.

There will always be those who know instinctively what to do and what not to do just as there will always be those who have no idea despite trying to learn. There is greed involved in this case, but it's not the victims who are greedy, it's the perpetrators of this crime and I pray that criminal charges will be laid against those responsible for so much suffering. They say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and they are right we will emerge from this debacle much stronger.
 

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