How do I work out profit?

[silent]

Hope if I post on right this section...

I just finished share game under ASX sponsored by Westpac

I started with $50,000 last Feb and yesterday finished with $61,130.
result profit was $11,130 ($6,049 divendend included)
but already spent brokage fee whoping $6,719 ($30 a trade)

I know this is not good figure anyway I can learn some mistake or right from share games...

So let pretend I go to accounat for tax on CGT and find how much left on my hands?

Thanks
Silent

 

[beamstas]

Hope if I post on right this section...

I just finished share game under ASX sponsored by Westpac

I started with $50,000 last Feb and yesterday finished with $61,130.
result profit was $11,130 ($6,049 divendend included)
but already spent brokage fee whoping $6,719 ($30 a trade)

I know this is not good figure anyway I can learn some mistake or right from share games...

So let pretend I go to accounat for tax on CGT and find how much left on my hands?

Thanks
Silent

Brokerage is included in CGT, you started with $50,000 and finished with $61,130. You made a Capital Gain of $11,130

 

[prawn_86]

You made a Capital Gain of $11,130

So if you were trading under your name you would be taxed at your marginal rate for that amount if you held for less than 1 yr or taxed at your marginal rate on half of that amount if you had held for over a year. I think...

(Accountants please correct me if im wrong)

 

[beamstas]

So if you were trading under your name you would be taxed at your marginal rate for that amount if you held for less than 1 yr or taxed at your marginal rate on half of that amount if you had held for over a year. I think...

(Accountants please correct me if im wrong)

That is correct
Unless you are a trader.
Im not going to go into the definition of a trader because i don't know -- the tax office doesn't even know

 

[silent]

(Accountants please correct me if im wrong)

Yeah this is correct sorry my spelling is terrible

 

[silent]

That is correct
Unless you are a trader.
Im not going to go into the definition of a trader because i don't know -- the tax office doesn't even know

Umm... If trading under my name just for personal fund and ATO would hunt me down because of Tax File number I guess...
Thats why I just wanted know how much profit left, I had hope if money's worth...

 

[beamstas]

Umm... If trading under my name just for personal fund and ATO would hunt me down because of Tax File number I guess...
Thats why I just wanted know how much profit left, I had hope if money's worth...

I wasn't saying don't put it in if you are a trader
Maybe i should be more clear.

 

[nathanblack]

Hope if I post on right this section...

I just finished share game under ASX sponsored by Westpac

I started with $50,000 last Feb and yesterday finished with $61,130.
result profit was $11,130 ($6,049 divendend included)
but already spent brokage fee whoping $6,719 ($30 a trade)

I know this is not good figure anyway I can learn some mistake or right from share games...

So let pretend I go to accounat for tax on CGT and find how much left on my hands?

Thanks
Silent

its not so black and white. your PROFIT was $11,130(this takes into account your brokerage), however its not all capital gain. Some of that ($6,049) was dividend and may have franking credits attached.

assuming dividend was unfranked, it will just be treated as income and added to your other taxable income. you will pay your marginal rate on those dividends.

the other profit was from capital gain. you own share for less than 12months, so the entire amount is also added to your taxable income for the year. if you own for more than 12months you are entitled to 50% discount on tax(ie you only add 50% of your profit to your taxable income)

 

[Mr J]

if you own for more than 12months you are entitled to 50% discount on tax(ie you only add 50% of your profit to your taxable income

Too bad I can't invest in Mr J's fund for 12+ months and get the same benefit .

 

[jono1887]

I spoke to my parents accountant and apparently you can claim that your investments/trades in the stock market has 'gambles' and there would be no tax implications on your profits (or losses). Does anyone have anymore information about this??

 

[prawn_86]

I spoke to my parents accountant and apparently you can claim that your investments/trades in the stock market has 'gambles' and there would be no tax implications on your profits (or losses). Does anyone have anymore information about this??

CFD's are classed as gambling income through the tax office, but shares are not as far as im aware due to the fact that they are an actual asset rather than just a derivative.

 

[jono1887]

CFD's are classed as gambling income through the tax office, but shares are not as far as im aware due to the fact that they are an actual asset rather than just a derivative.

so if you trade cfd's you dont pay taxes on profits??

 

[prawn_86]

so if you trade cfd's you dont pay taxes on profits??

As far as i'm aware thats correct

 

[Krusty the Klown]

Hope if I post on right this section...

I just finished share game under ASX sponsored by Westpac

I started with $50,000 last Feb and yesterday finished with $61,130.
result profit was $11,130 ($6,049 divendend included)
but already spent brokage fee whoping $6,719 ($30 a trade)

I know this is not good figure anyway I can learn some mistake or right from share games...

So let pretend I go to accounat for tax on CGT and find how much left on my hands?

Thanks
Silent

Your CGT result would be as follows:

As $6,179 of your profits was dividend, that leaves $5,081 of capital gain. Your brokerage of $6,719 is added to your $50K cost base.

So proceeds from sale = $55,081
Cost base = $56,719
Result = -$1,638

You made a capital loss of $1,638. You cannot claim this as a loss against other income in this tax year, but you can deduct it from capital gains for tax purposes in future years.

so if you trade cfd's you dont pay taxes on profits??

CFD's are treated the same as other financial derivative instruments. It is up to your interpretation of tax law however. If you did one CFD trade in the year, you may be able to treat it as a gambling win.

If you traded consecutively, in a regular manner like most share traders, it would be deemed assessable income.

 

[Kryzz]

so if you trade cfd's you dont pay taxes on profits??

Good case to reference here:

Ruling

11. A gain from a financial contract for differences will be assessable income under section 6-5 of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 (ITAA 1997) where the transaction is entered into as an ordinary incident of carrying on a business, or where the profit was obtained in a business operation or commercial transaction for the purpose of profit making.

http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=TXR/TR200515/NAT/ATO/00001

Shaun.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Check the PDS for your broker, it'll probably say something in there about tax on CFD's. Ultimately you should check with a tax agent.

I don't know if I'm allowed to copy and paste part of a PDS on here so I won't. But the Go Markets PDS, in reference to an Australian resident who does not carry on a business and enters into a CFD with the intention of making a profit, states that any profit or loss you make should be included in your assessable income or allowed as a deduction.

It would be nice if you could have tax free gains from CFD's but from my understanding that's not the case here in Australia. There is still the blurred line regarding whether are you trading or gambling though. Most people who think they are trading with CFD's are probably doing something closer to gambling. But if they thought they were trading and intended to make a profit, the ATO probably wants their share.

 

[Krusty the Klown]

I believe the idea that gains from CFD trading can be treated as gambling wins comes from the UK when CFD's first started there around 10 years ago, when you could claim them as such.

I don't know if this is still the case though.

 

[Mr J]

It would be nice if you could have tax free gains from CFD's but from my understanding that's not the case here in Australia. There is still the blurred line regarding whether are you trading or gambling though. Most people who think they are trading with CFD's are probably doing something closer to gambling. But if they thought they were trading and intended to make a profit, the ATO probably wants their share.

You would have to prove you're not in the business of trading to profit, which I imagine is impossible, considering that you're trading a financial instrument. Trading and gambling are no different, but they are of course treated very differently by most, including the courts.

 

[silent]

CFD's are classed as gambling income through the tax office, but shares are not as far as im aware due to the fact that they are an actual asset rather than just a derivative.

Please ignore my pardon and what's stand for CFD?
I tried search and doesn't help me...

 

[silent]

Your CGT result would be as follows:

As $6,179 of your profits was dividend, that leaves $5,081 of capital gain. Your brokerage of $6,719 is added to your $50K cost base.

So proceeds from sale = $55,081
Cost base = $56,719
Result = -$1,638

You made a capital loss of $1,638. You cannot claim this as a loss against other income in this tax year, but you can deduct it from capital gains for tax purposes in future years.

Thank for relvant on CGT result...

I guess I need know more facts before I throw real sash in the tradings.