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Julia said:
Calliope, you seem to somehow have knowledge of the thoughts and motivations of the girl concerned and be completely sure that she was 100% a victim.
Just one question for you: do you think it is impossible for any woman to be attracted to the idea of group sex, and to participate therein if such an opportunity were to be suggested?

I'm making no judgements about the girl. I can't because I have no idea about what sort of person she was.
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You seem to have mis-read my post. Can't you see I have recanted? This girl obviously seduced the guys.
 
Pappon said:
No in this day we are taught to blame someone for the consequences that results of our choices (from the media).
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I can imagine that in your world Pappon, there is only right or wrong, black and white, yes and no. Unfortunately, here on Earth, there are many degrees of grey.

You posted the above comment as an attack on the girl involved. It could very easily be said about Matty Johns. Stop blaming others for where you find yourself. Can you see the shades of grey?

Duckman

(PS I'm beginning to think that you've never Group Tango'd!)
 
Duckman,

In fairyland, a girl would never feel so intimidated and lacking in control that she would continue to participate while fearing for her safety. She would always say no, and her no would always be respected...even by drunken, testosterone driven males.

Sheesh.
 
Duckman#72 said:
I can imagine that in your world Pappon, there is only right or wrong, black and white, yes and no. Unfortunately, here on Earth, there are many degrees of grey.

You posted the above comment as an attack on the girl involved. It could very easily be said about Matty Johns. Stop blaming others for where you find yourself. Can you see the shades of grey?

Duckman

(PS I'm beginning to think that you've never Group Tango'd!)
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What planet are you on? Posted that as an attack on the girl WOW TWIST MY WORDS WOULD YOU.

MY POINT = Matthew Johns was NOT found guilty of anything illegal don't tear his whole life apart. How's that for BLACK AND WHITE. Dudman

Here's a quote from my first post for you to re read fool "Matthew Johns never forced himself on this girl and yet he is getting treated as such for which is incorrect. How about the girl? How about being treated like a criminal in the media when you are no such thing, how about that theory?"

My point again he was not charged = no conviction = don't treat him like a criminal.
 
Julia said:
Hi Duckman,
OK, thanks for explaining the context. I'm entirely ignorant (thankfully) about anything to do with football and its stars.
Still, I'm puzzled about why the girl would want to talk about such an experience in a television programme. And how did she come to be included in the programme? Did 4 Corners dig around until they found her, and persuade her to describe her experience in order to add weight to their story about the generally woeful conduct of football stars?
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Hi Julia

I don't know the answer to all these questions. I guess 4 Corners do what they are paid to do - find stories. With this years Brett Stewart sexual assault charge and last years Bronco "sex tryst in a toilet" saga - a report into the NRL footy culture can hardly be seen as "out of the blue". In fact Julia - you are doing very well to stay isolated from all the off field incidents.

Yes we can get all theoretical about "getting in her head" and finding out what she is going to gain from all this but sometimes you need to take things on face value. Maybe she is not getting big $$$$ from this, maybe she isn't interested in celebrity fame, maybe she is actually telling the truth.

One thing I've learnt - if it walks like a duck, and it talks like a duck.......it's usually a duck.

Quack

Duckman
 
You newbies get stirred up easily!! I apologise for getting off topic.

Can I get you to explain your post #238. What was your underlying argument, in particular to the quote you replied to?

Were you....or were you not, implying that the girl needs to live with her decision and not to blame others for her actions. That is what I understood you to mean.

As a side issue - if you read all my posts, I have continually said this is not about Matty Johns. He unfortunately collateral damage from the big NRL Sexual Conduct bomb. I agree he has paid a big price BUT you are forgetting that he has lost his contract DESPITE being found to have done nothing illegal. He didn't get the spear because of any criminal element, he got the spear because the network found it all so degrading and unsavoury. I have never, ever said he is a criminal.


May the force be with you
Duckman
 
I have just watched the ABC programme after having read this post. It seems that the girl has come forward to the ABC, or at least was prepared to talk publically now, because she is at the 'Angry' stage of the grief cycle - she wants the wives and girlfriends to know what their men are capable of.

You guys who say the girls are asking for it by getting drunk and wearing sexy clothes. Ask yourself this:

If a girl is drunk and is with two guys and agrees to have sex but with one of them, not the other, but the two guys secretly tag each other, and she has sex unkowingly with both, is that rape?

If a guy got drunk in a pub and found himself in a back room with another guy who helped him get there, would he then deserve to be anally raped?

Those same two issues were posed to the Rugby Junior team - guess what, their consensus was that the Girl was asking for it, the guy wasn't! Kinda sums up these people's understanding of sex, doesnt it! :rolleyes:
 
Duckman#72 said:
You newbies get stirred up easily!! I apologise for getting off topic.

Can I get you to explain your post #238. What was your underlying argument, in particular to the quote you replied to?

Were you....or were you not, implying that the girl needs to live with her decision and not to blame others for her actions. That is what I understood you to mean.

May the force be with you
Duckman
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My underlying point is don't tear apart someones whole financial and family life when they have not been convicted of doing anything wrong.

Professor Duckman you are acusing me of slaming an attack on a girl in this thread. May i refer to your post #244

'I can imagine that in your world Pappon, there is only right or wrong, black and white, yes and no. Unfortunately, here on Earth, there are many degrees of grey." are you hereby slamming an attack on me this would seem very hypocritical wouldn't it Duckman?? Were you....or were you not, personally attacking me?? as i understood it as such.


The darkside is strong with you Duckman
 
Pappon said:
My underlying point is don't tear apart someones whole financial and family life when they have not been convicted of doing anything wrong.
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He did do something 'wrong' though, didnt he. He even admitted that himself when he apologised to Claire in the Car Park. If he did nothing 'wrong' why would he do that.

I do agree he is the fall guy here, but he is also the one who is a major public face of Rugby. That is why he had to go.
 
Prospector said:
He did do something 'wrong' though, didnt he. He even admitted that himself when he apologised to Claire in the Car Park. If he did nothing 'wrong' why would he do that.

I do agree he is the fall guy here, but he is also the one who is a major public face of Rugby. That is why he had to go.
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Sorry Prospector while i would agree what happened was not great it was not illegal (as investigated by police) i should have used that instead of the word wrong my apologies. .

However i still hold my point no conviction of anything illegal his whole family and financial life should not be hammered in the way it was, which seems as though you have the same opinion on that as myself
 
Pappon said:
My underlying point is don't tear apart someones whole financial and family life when they have not been convicted of doing anything wrong.

Professor Duckman you are acusing me of slaming an attack on a girl in this thread. May i refer to your post #244

'I can imagine that in your world Pappon, there is only right or wrong, black and white, yes and no. Unfortunately, here on Earth, there are many degrees of grey." are you hereby slamming an attack on me this would seem very hypocritical wouldn't it Duckman.Were you....or were you not, personally attacking me?? as i understood it as such.


The darkside is strong with you Duckman
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Cool........I've gone from Dudman to Professor Duckman in the space of two posts. That's what I call respect!!

I'm sorry but I don't buy your first paragraph. Don't get me wrong....it is very well written and is a well constructed argument but it is completely out of context with anything you wrote in post 238. That might have been what you were thinking but it is not what you wrote. I think you are delving into a different thread - perhaps "Has Matty Johns Paid a too High Price for his Sex Romp?".

I apologise for suggesting that you were from another planet. I know how hurtful that can be.

Professor Duckman (I like that.....has a ring to it)
 
Pappon said:
Sorry Prospector while i would agree what happened was not great it was not illegal (as investigated by police) i should have used that instead of the word wrong my apologies.

However i still hold my point no conviction of anything illegal his whole family and financial life should not be hammered in the way it was, which seems as though you have the same opinion on that as myself
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I do, the other people involved, some being club officials, are pretty gutless. But maybe they dont get that what they have done is wrong.

But sometimes in life it is not the things you might do illegally that get you unstuck, but the things you do that are morally wrong. Especially, as in this case, he has been used as a mentor to younger players. It is desperately sad for his wife and children; but she has chosen to stay with him - I dont think I could even bear to look at him again knowing what he did - and maybe whatever else has happened.
 
hahahahah what a poet!

I apologise for suggesting that you were from another planet. I know how hurtful that can be.
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i may have to borrow that one , if you please

thanks in advance
 
Duckman#72 said:
Cool........I've gone from Dudman to Professor Duckman in the space of two posts. That's what I call respect!!

I'm sorry but I don't buy your first paragraph. Don't get me wrong....it is very well written and is a well constructed argument but it is completely out of context with anything you wrote in post 238. That might have been what you were thinking but it is not what you wrote. I think you are delving into a different argument "Has Matty Johns Paid to High Price for his Sex Romp".

I apologise for suggesting that you were from another planet. I know how hurtful that can be.

Professor Duckman (I like that.....has a ring to it)
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Duckman this getting like a legal battle in court i'll agree to disagree with you. Yes i think he paid too high a price yes thanks to the media.

I'd love to see all the journalists lives scrutinized in fact let's put that to channel 10 as a reality show.

"Journalists unleashed, they are gonna wish they never became one"

I could see it now "Turn the f**ken camera off, don't you people have a life, where do you get off dragging up my private life" lol
 
Pappon said:
Duckman this getting like a legal battle in court i'll agree to disagree with you. Yes i think he paid too high a price yes thanks to the media.

I'd love to see all the journalists lives scrutinized in fact let's put that to channel 10 as a reality show.

"Journalists unleashed, they are gonna wish they never became one"
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Ha - you are a good sport.

I agree it would be very interesting to put the private lives of others into the spotlight. It is ironic that Johns life has been destroyed, through the very two things that put him on the pedestal - football and the media.

I feel so very sorry for his children. I can't imagine what position they find themselves.

Duckman
 
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