Rugby League Louts

[MrBurns]

cant see the culture changing without banning the game for such a long period that an entirely new generation comes along

I think Ch 9 should not stop at sacking Johns they should make an ultimatum that they will cease to support ,telecast or report on the game itself it anything like this happens again without immediate charges being brought against the offender/s

This should be agreed across the networks.

 

[imajica]

Thank god they acted swiftly and got rid of the bogan bottom feeder! Its pathetic that people who are glorified apes with an IQ of a housebrick can gain any sort of notoriety.

 

[metric]

I think Ch 9 should not stop at sacking Johns they should make an ultimatum that they will cease to support ,telecast or report on the game itself it anything like this happens again without immediate charges being brought against the offender/s

This should be agreed across the networks.

and dumb bimbos whom entice young athletes into compromising situations that lead to a financial loss, should be jailed for soliciting....

 

[investorpaul]

I think Ch 9 should not stop at sacking Johns they should make an ultimatum that they will cease to support ,telecast or report on the game itself it anything like this happens again without immediate charges being brought against the offender/s

This should be agreed across the networks.

I agree, maybe a suitable punishment would be for every major incident, where it is not dealt with immediately and appropriately that weeks matches will not be telecast, with the NRL having to compensate the network for loss of revenue.

That would make them sit up.

 

[MrBurns]

and dumb bimbos whom entice young athletes into compromising situations that lead to a financial loss, should be jailed for soliciting....

If the young athletes weren't dumb bimbos themselves this wouldnt happen in the first place.

This isnt a pr0n movie or a wet dream these guys are dealing with real people, even if the girl asks to be shagged by the entire team the team should have the brains to decline, otherwise they will pay the price, no point blaming the girl. If she asked you to take heroin or train surf would you ?

 

[Kez180]

If the young athletes weren't dumb bimbos themselves this wouldnt happen in the first place.

This isnt a pr0n movie or a wet dream these guys are dealing with real people, even if the girl asks to be shagged by the entire team the team should have the brains to decline, otherwise they will pay the price, no point blaming the girl. If she asked you to take heroin or train surf would you ?

In my opinion if a girl wants to have sex with 5+ guys, that is her business... If she regrets it in the morning that is her own stupid fault...

The second she says no, and they don't stop it has gone too far and they should be charged with rape...

The 5+ guys have to decide whether they would rather get sloppy fifths or be faithful to their girlfriends...

 

[MrBurns]

In my opinion if a girl wants to have sex with 5+ guys, that is her business... If she regrets it in the morning that is her own stupid fault...

The second she says no, and they don't stop it has gone too far and they should be charged with rape...

The 5+ guys have to decide whether they would rather get sloppy fifths or be faithful to their girlfriends...

Well I cant imagine what sort of pig would do that anyway, shagging into their mates body fluids.

If someone asks you to shoot them you dont , if a chick, probably blind drunk, asks the team to fix her up you dont for more than one reason, otherwise you will pay.

 

[Prospector]

and dumb bimbos whom entice young athletes into compromising situations that lead to a financial loss, should be jailed for soliciting....

Except that isnt how this occurred.

Poor young athletes, sweet and innocent, how can we expect 18 - 30 year old athletes to keep to the same set of moral and legal values that society expects of us mere mortals.

If they kept their zips up none of this would happen.

 

[wabbit]

Normally I don't enter into these sort of discussions... but here goes anyway:

I don't watch a lot of TV or listen to many media reports, I do know the game of Rugby League exists but that's about as far as my interest in the sport goes. I certainly don't know all the facts of this case but here is what I have put together so far:

Seven (or so) years ago (nearly enough time has lapsed to say who cares?) some rugby league players (then, all of consensual age) had sex with a woman (also of consensual age) in New Zealand. It started with just a couple, then more players joined in. Some days/weeks after the event, the woman complained to police but did not want to press charges (then why go to the police?) The police investigated and after interviewing 40 or more "witnesses" who all agreed the sex occurred with consent of the woman, the investigation was concluded.

The media, conspiracy theorists and others hint that because ALL the witnesses said the sex was consensual, they all must have been lying whilst signing their legally-binding witness statements that their account of the events was wholly-factual. What if 100 witnesses said that nothing illegal took place, what about 1000 witnesses? How many witnesses telling the same story does it take?

Did something sordid take place? Yes. Was it illegal? Well here is the bit I still don't understand: the woman says yes, but the police who have already conducted an investigation into the matter and all the witnesses say no. If we assume the police did their jobs in the proper manner conducting a thorough investigation and concluded there was no case to answer, this matter should be laid to rest... but for some reason it is ongoing? Tall poppy syndrome?

The media is only pushing to flay one person who took part. What about the others? Why all the focus on only one person? Is it the media with the agenda to keep this story alive? (The sceptic in me says yes, because this is one of those stories tabloid media can pass off as "hard-hitting investigative journalism" when in fact it is just more scraping from the bottom of the barrel.)

Everyone makes their own decisions. We have all done some stupid things in our lives, some thing we regret, some things we wish we could forget. In some people these very strong feelings of self-guilt can lead to severe depression, drug abuse/dependence, self harm or even suicide. As much as I feel sorry (now) for the woman involved (I have dealt with my own black-dog) maybe at the time group-sex was what "floated her boat", maybe she wanted to "try it out" just as someone tries jumping off a cliff or experimenting with drugs, it might sound like a good idea at the time but it often turns out to be really stupid! She decided to go to the hotel room with the players and so far as all the witness statements have shown, agreed to engage in sex with multiple partners that night. Not considering the ramifications before the act or at the time is no reason to cry now and try to apportion blame to others. Again, the cynic in me is wondering if this is going to be $$$ based?

Like with Max Mosley -- who cares what consensual individuals/couples/groups get up to in the bedroom? Is it any of our business if a person likes to enter into a paid relationship to be whipped or spanked? Is it any of our business that a group of men had sex with a woman who at the time agreed to participate. I certainly don't. These are private matters and the media should be mindful of this.

So, it raises with me the point again, why is this an issue? It's one person's word against at least 40 others that a sordid but not illegal event occurred. It has been investigated by supposedly reliable and honest police officers and found not to be illegal. What do the media want, another investigation? Do we keep investigating this until they get the answer they want? Or is the explicit details the media want because "sex sells" and the more perverted and graphic the better? As much as grubby journalism makes headlines, this incident and those like it are far from news-worthy IMHO.


$0.02c

wabbit

 

[Prospector]

It's one person's word against at least 40 others that a sordid but not illegal event occurred.

Ah, and that is the issue with sex offences and Rugby league boys clubs, isnt it! Someone recently published a book (I think earlier it was noted in this thread?) about their experiences with the culture of league clubs and they were hounded in the media. His bravery in outing the culture is unique.

It is a closed society and no-one will rat on the other. Another issue is that they dont actually 'get it' yet. Like on the ABC the younger guy saying it would have been ok if they had got a taxi for her to go home in.

I understand the woman involved was rated as a credible witness. Volume of numbers on the 'other side' does not make her less credible, nor less likely that a crime took place. The Police investigation? Well, who knows where that went.

 

[investorpaul]

It is a closed society and no-one will rat on the other. Another issue is that they dont actually 'get it' yet. Like on the ABC the younger guy saying it would have been ok if they had got a taxi for her to go home in.

What about the other knuckle dragging boof head who when asked if the player would get in trouble for non consensual sex said "not if he has a good lawyer"

The sport should just be banned the only people who follow/support it are living in the dark ages.

 

[Prospector]

What about the other knuckle dragging boof head who when asked if the player would get in trouble for non consensual sex said "not if he has a good lawyer"

The sport should just be banned the only people who follow/support it are living in the dark ages.

Havent seen the whole episode, the bit I quoted above was shown on channel 7. No doubt there are more gems to quote. They think that money can buy them anything. And I guess up until now, that has been the case.

The thing is, once women start telling what has happened to them over the years, given this happened several years ago, this probably wont be the last one. Hopefully there are some players starting to get very very worried.

 

[Duckman#72]

$0.02c

Thankfully, under our existing currency levels your $0.02c is rounded down to $0.00 - which some would argue is the correct price for your piece of work.

Personally, I think you are being too hard on yourself. I'd pitch it at $0.03c so that we would have to round up to $0.05c, if only because it would have taken a bit of time to write 8 paragraphs.

I think you should take the time to watch the 4 Corners report.

Duckman

 

[Prospector]

Thankfully, under our existing currency levels your $0.02c is rounded down to $0.00 - which some would argue is the correct price for your piece of work.

Personally, I think you are being too hard on yourself. I'd pitch it at $0.03c so that we would have to round up to $0.05c, if only because it would have taken a bit of time to write 8 paragraphs.

I think you should take the time to watch the 4 Corners report.

Very clever Mr D!

 

[awg]

Normally I don't enter into these sort of discussions... but here goes anyway:

$0.02c

wabbit

I tend to agree, FWIW

apparently he is going to respond on ACA at 7.00pm

"apparently" the other side of what went down on the night is very different to as presented on 4C.

No matter how reprehensible or disgusting people think his conduct is, he is the one that is now being hung out to dry.

I agree he had no choice but to step down, as noted in an earlier post.

I have met the dude on occasions due to our sons playing footy against each other. There are a lot worse out there in business circles, I would wager.

In the past, when I was young, I saw events similar unfold on several occasions, they all had common characteristics, including alcohol, and very poor behaviour by guys, but the girls were active participants at the time,
lot less fun was had by all over the next few days as recriminations spread.

Whenever I see bestial behaviour, I remind myself that humans are animals, and that underlies many things, especially if inhibitions are removed.

( I have been in trouble for saying that before..so blast away)

Should see the trouble they have with young men, that have had certain head injuries in MVA, they lose control of their sexual inhibitions, with dire results

 

[wabbit]

apparently he is going to respond on ACA at 7.00pm

... so it is going to end up in a "he said -- she said" argument. Pointless media sensationalism. At least it will divert some of the attention away from the Budget.

This is why I don't watch much tv or listen to many media reports; and watching the 4-Corners report wont do much to uncover the entire truth either.



wabbit

 

[Knobby22]

...

This is why I don't watch much tv or listen to many media reports; and watching the 4-Corners report wont do much to uncover the entire truth either.


wabbit

Watching the 4 corners report has a chance of changing your view and understanding the context, so make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[Judd]

I used to follow Rugby League until one evening I had to fly from Sydney to Brisbane. On that flight was a "victorious" Brisbane team headed by a player known as The Little General.

Never before or since have I, and possibly the rest of the civilized passengers and crew, encountered such a group of foul mouthed, inconsiderate, cretinous, drunken Neanderthal louts of which the Little General was the most obnoxious, swaggering worst of a bad bunch.

I have not watched or concerned myself with a game of Rugby League since.

 

[Julia]

I can't help thinking there must be more to this story than has currently been presented.

Why is it all making headlines now, 7 years after the event?

Why did the girl not want to press charges? Perhaps she felt intimidated by the prospect of her life being dragged through the courts and the media.
This has stopped many women from reporting rape and/or preferring charges.

Did the NZ police not charge the players purely on the basis of the girl's wishes (but if so why did she go to the police initially), or because they felt there was no case to answer?

The point has been made that she at no stage said "Stop", "I don't want this to happen", "Leave me alone" , nor does she claim she attempted to leave but was prevented from so doing, etc etc, and the deduction therefore made that she continued to be a willing participant in the group sex.

That's probably not necessarily a valid conclusion as she was probably (a) drunk so confused and less than functional, and/or (b) in a state of shock , or a combination of the two.

We simply don't know why she did not tell them to stop, scream, or otherwise make her objections known.
If it were happening to me, I'd be screaming bloody hell.

The 4 Corners programme discussed her present mental state, related that she was depressed, had been suicidal and showed symptoms of PTSD.
It could all be related to the episode in question, or it could have little to do with it. We don't know anything about her, what other factors in her life could have been or are currently contributing to her state of mind.

Perhaps she was subsequently in such a state of distress that she 'buried' the incident, and more recent psychological treatment has brought it to the fore.

Why is Matthew Johns (whom I'd never heard of before reading this thread and in whom I have zilch interest) the only one being called to account.
We are told there were 6 or 7 young men involved. Where and who are the others?

As wabbit said (and I think some of you have been a bit hard on him/her for asking some objective questions) it's none of our or anyone's business what sort of sexual practices anyone indulges in, provided they are fully consensual and do not harm someone vulnerable, e.g. children.

I am really puzzled about why this is suddenly an issue seven years post the event. It simply doesn't make sense to me.

And before someone jumps on me, no, I am not suggesting Johns et al are anything other than stupid, undoubtedly emotionally and morally abusive , and entirely disrespectful towards women. Certainly towards his wife also.

 

[Prospector]

Maybe it is because Johns has been made an ambassador for Rugby League (not that we get any info about that here in SA but it has been mentioned in the programme) and he along with the original subject of this thread have been highly promoted this year. Perhaps the positive publicity he has been getting simply pushed her to doing something about it. Maybe she has just received counselling and the message for that was to do something about it to help her resolve the issue. Sometimes you get to the point in life where inaction seems worse than action?

One of the cases mentioned on the programme had been hushed up by the Rugby League - the one at Bathurst I think?

Many assault cases end up as a 'he said - she said' situation.