Wayne Swan, can you beat that?

[noirua]

The gauntlet has been thrown down in a UK Autumn (Spring) package.

All pensioners, 60 or over women and 65 or over men, will get a $150 handout in January and their 5.2% increase is being brought forward 3 months to January 1st. They (men and women 60 or over) had already received a $600 to $1100 (depending on age) handout in November.

Childrens' allowance increases of 5.2% have also been brought forward 3 months. All other allowances have also been brought forward.

A reduction in VAT from 17.5% to 15% for 13 months, in fact reduces all prices (excluding food sold in shops that does not carry VAT) by 2.13%.

Taxes on small companies have been reduced and tax and other duties can now be paid monthly in arrears. Small company loans cannot now suddenly be withdrawn or interest rates increased.

 

[xoa]

Wayne Swann should just put the printing presses into turbo mode and give everybody a million dollars.

I saw it happen in a Scrooge McDuck cartoon and everything ended well. Inflation and debt is good.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Wayne Swann should just put the printing presses into turbo mode and give everybody a million dollars.

I saw it happen in a Scrooge McDuck cartoon and everything ended well. Inflation and debt is good.

Absolutely!

I heard some Uberoptimistik Econojock in the US proclaiming today "The Fed has UNLIMITED funds to handle the problem".

Wow!! By definition,

[size=+2]UNLIMITED = INFINITE!![/size]

Wo-hoo! Why is anyone worried? With INFINITE funds to chuck around, the FunnyFed can do ANYTHING.

What heroes.

What B$!!!

 

[noirua]

Re: Wayne Swann, can you beat that?

Absolutely!

I heard some Uberoptimistik Econojock in the US proclaiming today "The Fed has UNLIMITED funds to handle the problem".

Wow!! By definition,

[size=+2]UNLIMITED = INFINITE!![/size]

Wo-hoo! Why is anyone worried? With INFINITE funds to chuck around, the FunnyFed can do ANYTHING.

What heroes.

What B$!!!

I suppose every country has unlimited funds as they can print notes on one side only and not care if they devalue their currency.
Most assets are now worth about 25% less in US Dollar terms and more in most local currencies.

Don't forget to vote for AUSSIE STOCK FORUMS at http://www.thebull.com.au/the_stockies/forums.html

 

[noirua]

Re: Wayne Swann, can you beat that?

I suppose every country has unlimited funds as they can print notes on one side only and not care if they devalue their currency.
Most assets are now worth about 25% less in US Dollar terms and more in most local currencies.

Don't forget to vote for AUSSIE STOCK FORUMS at http://www.thebull.com.au/the_stockies/forums.html

Please note Mr Swann: The European Union have outlined a €200 billion package as a stimulus for its 27 nation members.

 

[wayneL]

In everybody's haste to embrace Keynesianism in this "downturn" (mustn't call it a recession now), they neglected to fully explain to the public what it actually is.

Keynesianism calls for economic stimulus in recessions to stave off deeper recessions and unemployment. All fine and dandy except that "stimulus" is described as the inducement to invest. However, our modern governments are more about inducements to spend. At a point where business and individuals have been encouraged to indulge in glutinous profligacy of debt, this is not a very fraking good idea. We are maxed out bozos.

This is why it won't work.

The big secret to Keynesianism, if it is to be used correctly, is to also be Keynesians in boom times. That means that with the understanding that government will need to spend in bad times, it needs to build up reserves in the good times to at least partially finance the spending via reserves.

Nope, not our modern imbecile governments. They spent up in the good times, buying votes.

So, who finances the spending?

Us, folks, with future tax rises... and our children.

This is NOT proper Keynesianism folks, this is a most perverted form of it, a prostitution of free market economics where the prudent bail out the profligate. And let me tell you something: The prudent and not very fracing happy. We're as mad as hell.

You can count on Mr Swine falling into line with the rest of the pseudo Keynesian clowns masquerading as treasurers and economists, but it won't be the best thing for the country in the long term.

As a result, economic hegemony will most assuredly be handed over to the Chinese, on a silver platter.

Congratulations white man, we've done to ourselves what the terrorists never could.

 

[chops_a_must]

Pretty much.

And to top it off, despite Keynesianism theorising that you need to take both the peaks and troughs out (whilst stimulating the peak in this cycle), we aren't even in the trough yet.

It is absurd to be spending millions in rural areas for things they may not need in 3 years time if everyone leaves. It is just retarded.

How do we even know at this stage where any infrastructure investment needs to be spent? We don't even know what areas are going to be viable for us in the future, so what is the use in pouring billions in before we know that.

It is seriously seriously unwise to be spending like this in a free fall, when anything you spend is just a piss in a river. Far better to wait until we are closer to the bottom, and then spend when it has most impact, when people are closer to their most dire situations.

But then again... Australians are majority idiots, and probably likewise the rest of the world.

 

[2020hindsight]

Well, let's not forget that the US are splashing money around as well - even more so...

and Malcolm Turnbull has been singing the praises of Hank Paulson, (when it suits him) US Treasury Secretary, about 8 weeks ago on ABC's AM. "Just the man to lead the world out of this etc".

Apparently when Turnbull worked for Goldman as as Partner, Paulson was Senior Partner.

And he thinks that reporters - and/or Wayne Swan - shouldn't use words like "toxic waste" to describe the subprime legacy. Yet he agrees that it was the wrong way for bankers to behave.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=340588&highlight=henry#post340588

This from 25 Sep (I wonder if Malcolm would admit this interview today). Ahh, the luxury of being in opposition - pretending to be bipartisan, and sniping everything in sight, knowing that your theories don't count because you're sitting in the back seat with the toy steering wheel

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2008/s2373734.htm

CHRIS UHLMANN: Malcolm Turnbull, good morning.

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Good morning Chris.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Now you're a former chairman and managing director of Goldman Sachs. How much blame should merchant banks take for the current financial mess?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well as Hank Paulson has said, there's plenty of blame to go around and I agree with those legislators in the US that say that executives of financial institutions should not be rewarded. Indeed, they should get nothing out of this and I'm sure Congress will ensure that happens.

But you know, the world is lucky to have Hank Paulson as US Treasury Secretary right at the moment. I've worked closely with Hank. He was the chairman of Goldman Sachs, the senior partner when I was a partner of the firm.

And he's shown real leadership in the past. I mean when Korea ran out of foreign exchange at the end of '97, it was Hank Paulson who brought Wall Street together, who got together with, brought JP Morgan in and showed real leadership in providing the rescue package that got Korea through that very difficult period.

CHRIS UHLMANN: But you and Hank Paulson would also have dealt in these product derivatives that are the toxic waste that's now flowing around the world. Why should we entrust you, or him, with its salvation?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well, let me just say this to you. The, you shouldn't use words like toxic waste. I mean this is what Wayne Swan does. He uses all of this inflammatory language. What you have is assets, loans that were made to people who didn't have the, in the United States, due to lax regulation and poor lending standards, loans to people who couldn't repay them; loans on houses with inflated values.

And so what you've got is loans, they're not toxic they're just worth a lot less, in many cases, than the amount that was lent.

And what Paulson is seeking to do is to get liquidity back into the system - not to buy a loan that's worth 60 cents in the dollar for 100 cents, but to buy it to get it out of the frozen situation it is at the moment and to restore liquidity.

CHRIS UHLMANN: But the companies that you worked for took those mortgages that were given to people that didn't have income, assets or jobs, and turned them into other products, derivatives that were rated as AAA assets. Now how can you trade in that kind of money, how can you trade in that kind of system and tell the world that that was a good way to behave?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well I'm not saying, I'm saying it was a bad way to behave. It was clearly very mistaken.

 

[2020hindsight]

PS
and ... As if Costello would be doing anything significantly different

(This from last year of course)

 

[2020hindsight]

PS
.. and yet again, when Turnbull was asked what he would do differently to Rudd / Swan, he didn't answer and evaded/deflected the question... Instead insisting that he'd give money to pensioners where Rudd wouldn't (at that point in time, 25 Sept, at least not immediately) .

CHRIS UHLMANN: To bring this to a domestic level, what would you do differently that the Government is not doing? What would you do today that's different from what Wayne Swan would do?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well firstly I'd stop turning Question Time into cat calling and gotcha-politics.

CHRIS UHLMANN: It was…

MALCOLM TURNBULL: No Chris, it may have been like that at times in the past. Wayne Swan has debased the economic debate in Australia and trivialised it. They've mocked pensioners; they've mocked our attempts to have a bipartisan dialogue on the economy.

I mean I've offered to sit down with Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan and discuss how we can on a bipartisan basis undertake measures, agree on measures that will provide for further stability.

CHRIS UHLMANN: You say that they have mocked pensioners. They knocked back a bill which you raised in the Senate which was, do you believe that that bill was constitutional? You were also… etc

 

[wayneL]

Well, let's not forget that the US are splashing money around as well - even more so...

and Malcolm Turnbull has been singing the praises of Hank Paulson, (when it suits him) US Treasury Secretary, about 8 weeks ago on ABC's AM. "Just the man to lead the world out of this etc".

Apparently when Turnbull worked for Goldman as as Partner, Paulson was Senior Partner.

And he thinks that reporters - and/or Wayne Swan - shouldn't use words like "toxic waste" to describe the subprime legacy. Yet he agrees that it was the wrong way for bankers to behave.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=340588&highlight=henry#post340588

This from 25 Sep (I wonder if Malcolm would admit this interview today). Ahh, the luxury of being in opposition - pretending to be bipartisan, and sniping everything in sight, knowing that your theories didn't count because you're sitting in the back seat with the toy steering wheel

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2008/s2373734.htm

Thanks for that party political broadcast 2020.

Yes the economic perversion transcends political affiliations; there was no implication that it didn't.

 

[nioka]

But then again... Australians are majority idiots, and probably likewise the rest of the world.

Still being offensive.... What a bl@*^y statement. Please tell us who besides you are not an idiot. For that statement you MUST take back your troll certification. ( 0r please leave Australia)

 

[chops_a_must]

Still being offensive.... What a bl@*^y statement. Please tell us who besides you are not an idiot. For that statement you MUST take back your troll certification. ( 0r please leave Australia)

Pfft...

There are many people who are not idiots. A lot of them are on this forum.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/no-recession-says-costello-20081126-6ivz.html

Costello the man!

 

[noirua]

The UK has now announced that its debts are equivalent to AU$2.4 trillion. Can Australia beat that?

Oh, almost forgot! Have you voted for ASF yet at the following link: http://www.thebull.com.au/the_stockies/forums.html

 

[noirua]

I get the feeling the Government are missing a trick here as they settle back on their laurels. Lightening the load, interest rates being reduced, won't stop the truck going down hill all the faster.
It needs a gutsy effort, similar to jumping on board the truck and steering the country on to safer terrain.

 

[Calliope]

I get the feeling the Government are missing a trick here as they settle back on their laurels. Lightening the load, interest rates being reduced, won't stop the truck going down hill all the faster.
It needs a gutsy effort, similar to jumping on board the truck and steering the country on to safer terrain.

The trick they are missing here is the joker held by Ms Gillard. Rudd and Swan are committed to policies of setting an example to the world on handling carbon emissions and at the same time stabilising the economy so that we don't slide into recession. The key to achieving satisfactory outcomes in both aims is to make the most efficient use of available resources.

At the same time Ms Gillard, aided and abetted by the ex-union heavyweights who now dominate caucus, has rewritten the industrial relations laws to pave the way for the unions to again seize control of the shopfloor. Union control leads to very inefficient use of available resources

Greg Combet has has made no secret of his aim that the unions should again run the country. You only need to look back a little way to when the unions did run the country. Productivity on the waterfront, the construction industry, the airlines industry and the motor vehicle industry was a shambles.

The unions did win the election for Mr Rudd with their cleverly orchestrated campaign against work choices. It is now payback time. The union heavies are not going to to put up with Mr Rudd's fiscal conservative policies for much longer.

Ms Gillard, who has the lean and hungry look, knew where the seat of power lay when she took Industrial Relations when she could have had Treasury for the asking.

Mr Rudd has been very naive in giving Ms Gillard the opportunities to out- perform him in parliament. This will help pave the way for the takeover when the time comes.

 

[Glen48]

"Nope, not our modern imbecile governments. They spent up in the good times, buying votes."
I would like to nominate Howard as the worst PM in OZ history. $380M of telling us how good the GST will be, a few more Million here few more million there all to buy votes million on detention centres, Iraq war.
He should have regulated the mortgage brokers, not allow the FHO grant. Spent money on ever thing other than fighting workers with Work choice and leaving a surplus for Krudd et al to waste.

 

[moXJO]

Greg Combet has has made no secret of his aim that the unions should again run the country. You only need to look back a little way to when the unions did run the country. Productivity on the waterfront, the construction industry, the airlines industry and the motor vehicle industry was a shambles.

It's no secret that I think he construction union were some of the biggest tossers of all time. Union heavy weights and their thugs would often appear at an employer’s home and stand over the family to get their way. Mind you this was back in the 90's, but they were some of the most vile pieces of trash I ever had the misfortune to come across on a lot of job sites. The trouble started reappearing just a few months before Rudd got in. When a construction worker was told he had to join the union to work on the site. Which was a load of BS it went to court and the union fought it tooth and nail and lost bit sketchy on if the union appealed to keep fighting it.

I hope it’s not full of the same d..kwads it once was as they could drag down a whole job site just to try and get there way. I have no respect for the shonky construction employers either but I am happy with the current system compared to just how bad it use to be.

Just by looking at the amount of strikes from teachers, airlines and construction I don't think it’s to hard to see which direction we are going in. If the full force of deflation does hit I wonder if the country will be held to ransom due to diminishing pay packets and employees wanting boom time wages?

 

[noirua]

Wayne Swan Treasurer speaks: Suggesting mining companies should not layoff staff and instead should reduce hours. Russia and the Ukraine are doing this and the UK may follow. Should Australia as a major mining country do the same?