China on our doorstep

[divs4ever]

Or any Australian resident unable to leave this country for nearly 3y without a gov department exemption, or sacked for refusing to take a jab even if that jab can kill him her.
The West has forgotten.
Poor ANZACs..all this for that

don't worry you can bet they forced all those jabs into our armed forces

i bet Xi had a BIG smile today when Dutton told us to prepare for war

grand father , auntie , and all those great uncles must have all rolled in their graves today

but not great grand-father .. he was on the HMS Agincourt when it ran into Gibraltar ( with the Admiral on board ) ruining a dust up in the Middle East ( i believe they were going to irritate Turkey )

HMS Agincourt (1865)​

HMS Agincourt (1865)

HMS Agincourt was a Minotaur-class armoured frigate built for the Royal Navy during the 1860s. She spent most of her career as the flagship of the Channel Fleet's second-in-command. During the Russo-Turkish War of 1877–78, she was one of the ironclads sent to Constantinople to forestall a...

military-history.fandom.com

( i still have his medal for the service )

 

[3 hound]

Another way to look at this instead of China on our doorstop is Australia is on China's doorstep...... probably as a door mat. We are an Asian country and have even been referred to by our former leader as "the white trash of Asia".

 

[divs4ever]

and THAT is half of our problem (decades of less than impressive leaders )

we had the option of trading PARTNER , but as usual greed and corruption eroded the mutual trust needed

will be watching New Zealand , who seemed to have cut the perfect deal ( for NZ ) and look to have gone back to the old Anglo-colonial ways ( China might easily punish them first )

 

[sptrawler]

and THAT is half of our problem (decades of less than impressive leaders )

we had the option of trading PARTNER , but as usual greed and corruption eroded the mutual trust needed

will be watching New Zealand , who seemed to have cut the perfect deal ( for NZ ) and look to have gone back to the old Anglo-colonial ways ( China might easily punish them first )

What was the old saying " beware of Greeks bearing gifts". Lol

 

[Value Collector]

I'll be cutting the grass fine, looking pretty "smoking up' in dismay about how they brought about the covid situation.

Pandemics come from all over the globe, Covid deaths are still tiny compared to some of the pandemics that have started in other places.

In fact the Spanish flu one of the largest pandemics, that killed more than 10 times the number covid has was started by our friends the Americans, and in recent times the Americans also gave us the swine flu.

 

[divs4ever]

What was the old saying " beware of Greeks bearing gifts". Lol

sticking strictly to the deal has worked for me , if i don't like the deal , i walk away ( annoys the hell out of the Chinese where haggling is a popular sport )

but some like the keep changing stuff in the deal , and that makes things complicated ( and the ones that really find trouble are the ones that brag about screwing the other party )

 

[sptrawler]

sticking strictly to the deal has worked for me , if i don't like the deal , i walk away ( annoys the hell out of the Chinese where haggling is a popular sport )

but some like the keep changing stuff in the deal , and that makes things complicated ( and the ones that really find trouble are the ones that brag about screwing the other party )

I think the Solomons are about to find out.

 

[rederob]

So China propped us up, due to its benevolent nature? You are joking aren't you, do you think they didn't need the materials they bought from us. I mean you certainly have a unique way of looking at things.

China and Australia have a mutually beneficial trading arrangement. That continues to this day, but it's transient as China has the ability to develop trading relationships elsewhere and effectively bypass Australia. Indeed, through its BRI a great deal of progress has already been made. Anyway, the simple bottom line is that without China continuing as an economic powerhouse throughout the GFC, we would have suffered like most western nations did, yet we didn't.

Or it may not have happened as China's ascendance has only happened over the last 25 years and the opportunity and their lack of capability may have factored in to the equation. But don't let logics blur your reasoning.

You point lacked logic to begin, so pasting over it with a limp afterthought does not remedy it!
And I have no idea how it is somehow relevant to your idea that China can just take what it wants, if it want to. Neither proposition is better than a brain fart.

Africa is a hotbed of political and social dysfunction, which I am sure you are aware of, also the population is large, tribal and in constant conflict, Australia is a much easier target.

???
No, you explained precisely why Africa is an easy target.
Anyway, China has only a fleeting interest in Australia as its 25M population is a pittance in terms of the future commercial demand of Africa's 1.2B.

China may well move to chip dominance, but as yet they haven't, so that is your belief and you as I am entitled to our own beliefs and predictions.

There are two parts to the chip equation. The first part is having enough to do the job, and in that regard China is ok. That's why very few of China's local auto industry have been particularly affected.
The second part is leading edge manufacture, and that's the catch-up game China is playing. Far from me having an opinion, it's a race that's quantifiable and anyone can follow. Furthermore, China has it prioritised as a key to its its technological future, and is investing hundreds of billions to get there.
You need to work out the difference between someone's personal opinion and a nation's progress towards its stated objectives, or do you need the media to help you?

 

[rederob]

sticking strictly to the deal has worked for me , if i don't like the deal , i walk away ( annoys the hell out of the Chinese where haggling is a popular sport )

Haggling is a feature of all informal markets across the globe, and only putting Chinese in your sights is as myopic as it gets.
My favourite target in Australia is new car dealerships who think they actually have the bargaining power until I walk away with a final offer.

but some like the keep changing stuff in the deal , and that makes things complicated ( and the ones that really find trouble are the ones that brag about screwing the other party )

Like what Australia did with the French on submarines, or to the Chinese on Huawei?
I won't even venture into American bragging as I want to keep this post short.

The inept Coalition are presently trying to do a Howard, and instigate a "children thrown overboard" moment to cement votes from those rusted on to the notion that "tough on borders" is a vote winner. So here's what a former Defence Chief has to say, under the headline:

"Sleepwalking" into war: former CDF renews warning​

 

[3 hound]

China continuing as an economic powerhouse throughout the GFC, we would have suffered like most western nations did, yet we didn't

Internet award for maximum oversimplification of a complex topic.

 

[Stockbailx]

I think the Solomons are about to find out.

With the election debate on top of the agenda for all Australian, labor has came up with the initiative of a counter punch to china, by announcing they would strengthen the pacific region by appointing our own security presents in the region by training other nations to fight in the area. Quite logical if you ask me, because while where at strengthen an re-orientate our own defence system and by all means stay away from the monarchist movement. ( could of been done earlier )

 

[rederob]

Internet award for maximum oversimplification of a complex topic.

Look at China's GDP as a basis"

I present to you the ASF award of the hour for the least useful post.
If you are going to make a point, have a credible basis for it.

 

[Stockbailx]

With the election debate on top of the agenda for all Australian, labor has came up with the initiative of a counter punch to china, by announcing they would strengthen the pacific region by appointing our own security presents in the region by training other nations to fight in the area. Quite logical if you ask me, because while where at strengthen an re-orientate our own defence system and by all means stay away from the monarchist movement. ( could of been done earlier )

I believe it would have strong positive economic implications for the area and be in Australia's best interest. And I stress providing Australia stays away from the monarchist movement and paves its way clear of USA coward est war demographics...

 

[3 hound]

I believe it would have strong positive economic implications for the area and be in Australia's best interest. And I stress providing Australia stays away from the monarchist movement and paves its way clear of USA coward est war demographics...

I don't think Australia needs to become the military police of the Pacific, we have enough military to have a war for about 15 minutes. Having a military capable of matching China means we print more money to fund it or get rid of roads, hospital welfare...etc.

The labour party is just making mouth statements before an election - it's what politicians of all stripes do.

 

[Stockbailx]

I don't think Australia needs to become the military police of the Pacific, we have enough military to have a war for about 15 minutes. Having a military capable of matching China means we print more money to fund it or get rid of roads, hospital welfare...etc.

The labour party is just making mouth statements before an election - it's what politicians of all stripes do.

Politicians can't be trusted, murder the Governor General for instance he doesn't serve a purpose. As for labor senator Penny Wong for e.g. I can't make heads or tails of her acquirement and I'm not sure if she is sure. But 500m for 4 years, to static nations in the pacific would also boost diplomatic prospects in the region, and perhaps hinder, China's evolution of ruling the pacific, putting Australia on the back foot with no where to run.
The pacific region can't be neglected and needs to be updated, for Australia's stability and economic future, but a monarchist model is not the way to go, more trouble then what its worth. We look bad and the short end of the straw, chance why the Solomon Islands deferred to China.

As for the economics of investing in the Pacific Region if done properly is a small price to pay for a diplomatic future and stability. AUD grows on trees confined by Scomo and I thinks it right as long as the right kind of seed is planted and its well looked after. Just got to stop paying for a ridicules foreign head of state and be real. I would like to know how much tax payer dollar is going in that direction.

 

[Stockbailx]

China must be upset with Australia's involvement into the pacific...(Starting a War)

With China trying to stack claims and unite the pacific to there regime and Australia doing the same the tension must have mounted. I'm guessing China must be furious with Australia interfering with their talks there having with the pacific nations trying to get them to sign off on security deals, to bolster their empire?

So this very unspectacular event happened. Channel 7 reported this;

Chinese fighter plane intercepts Australian aircraft in ‘very dangerous’ incident​

The incident resulted in the Australian flight crew needing to performing a ‘dangerous manoeuvre’.

Defence Minister Richard Marles says the interception of one of Australia’s maritime surveillance aircraft by a Chinese fighter plane over the South China Sea last month was a “very dangerous” situation.
In a statement, the Department of Defence said on May 26 an RAAF P-8 maritime surveillance aircraft was intercepted by a Chinese J-16 fighter during routine maritime surveillance activity in international airspace in the South China Sea region.
“The intercept resulted in a dangerous manoeuvre which posed a safety threat to the P-8 aircraft and its crew,” it said.

 

[3 hound]

China must be upset with Australia's involvement into the pacific...(Starting a War)

With China trying to stack claims and unite the pacific to there regime and Australia doing the same the tension must have mounted. I'm guessing China must be furious with Australia interfering with their talks there having with the pacific nations trying to get them to sign off on security deals, to bolster their empire?

So this very unspectacular event happened. Channel 7 reported this;

Chinese fighter plane intercepts Australian aircraft in ‘very dangerous’ incident​

The incident resulted in the Australian flight crew needing to performing a ‘dangerous manoeuvre’.

Defence Minister Richard Marles says the interception of one of Australia’s maritime surveillance aircraft by a Chinese fighter plane over the South China Sea last month was a “very dangerous” situation.
In a statement, the Department of Defence said on May 26 an RAAF P-8 maritime surveillance aircraft was intercepted by a Chinese J-16 fighter during routine maritime surveillance activity in international airspace in the South China Sea region.
“The intercept resulted in a dangerous manoeuvre which posed a safety threat to the P-8 aircraft and its crew,” it said.

Clip says it all.

 

[againsthegrain]

Clip says it all.

Yeah except Russians are getting smashed by Ukrainians who are being trained and tutored by Americans. As for China their troops or generals have 0 experience in any real conflicts.

 

[JohnDe]

Chinese fighter’s indefensible action is full of hypocrisy​

The interception by a Chinese J-16 fighter aircraft of an Australian surveillance plane in the South China Sea was aggressive, reckless, dangerous, irresponsible, gratuitous and illegal. In other words, it was a typical act of Beijing policy in the Indo-Pacific.
It gives the lie to the so-called charm offensive being waged by China’s ambassador in Canberra.

It also helps explain the unmistakeable urgency of the Albanese government’s regional diplomatic agenda, in the South Pacific and in Southeast Asia.

Actions like this are part of the reason the Prime Minister went to Tokyo 48 hours after being sworn in, has sent his Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, already on several trips to the South Pacific, and is now leading a large ministerial and business delegation to Indonesia for annual leaders’ talks with Indonesia’s President, Joko Widodo.

Defence Minister Richard Marles was right to publicise the incident, which took place on May 26; to protest strongly to the Chinese about it; and most assuredly to declare that Australia is “not going to be deterred” from undertaking maritime surveillance in the South China Sea.

Beijing’s position is indefensible in international law and full of hypocrisy.

Australia, like most nations, does not recognise the sovereignty or legitimacy of Beijing’s rule over islands in the South China Sea it has taken by force or simply constructed. This was also the ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in 2016, which Beijing refuses to recognise.

Nonetheless, in the ship transits and air surveillance that Australian navy and air force assets undertake in the South China Sea, they do not breach the 12 nautical mile territorial waters zone that applies to any nation’s territory.

US assets do occasionally breach the 12 nautical miles to underscore their nonrecognition of Beijing’s sovereignty.

Beyond the 12 nautical miles, there can be absolutely no dispute that Australia is operating legally in international waters or international air space.

Thus, while the then Morrison government was unhappy that a Chinese spy ship sailed close to the coast of Western Australia, Canberra did not suggest Beijing was behaving illegally. Nor did it send out Australian war ships to cut off and threaten to ram the Chinese vessel, be the equivalent of Beijing’s action against the Australian P8 maritime surveillance aircraft.

The nature of the Chinese intercept was particularly dangerous. By flying so close to the Australian plane, firing flares and then taking up a position directly in front of the P8 before releasing chaff, the Chinese air force showed itself indifferent to issues of safety.

Beijing’s aircraft and ships have been behaving aggressively in territory around Taiwan and around Japanese islands which are claimed by China, for some years. The US air force and navy has been frequently surprised by how dangerous and irresponsible Chinese military stunts directed at US assets have often been.

Beijing’s intentions appear to be to exercise intimidation, to raise the level or risk and cost for other nations operating in areas where Beijing wants to assert control, and to show its intent is decisive, ruthless and expanding.

The incident once more demonstrates the parlous weakness of Australian conventional defence capabilities and the urgent need to produce serious fire power and asymmetric capability within the next few years.

It is also good this incident has become public before the Australian delegation reaches Indonesia. In recent years, Jakarta has been increasingly unhappy with Chinese assertiveness over the disputed Natuna Islands.

Nonetheless, Indonesia craves Chinese money and tries to run a non-confrontational if not enigmatic foreign policy. Given its size and location, few nations are more important to us than Indonesia. And given the natural leadership, if not dominance, by Jakarta of ASEAN, it is also a critical player in the regional response to Beijing’s multi-factor aggressiveness.

There is no better way Albanese could be spending his time now than in leadership dialogue in Indonesia. In their less declarative way, they are just as concerned about China as we are.

GREG SHERIDAN​

FOREIGN EDITOR

 

[Value Collector]

The crazy part to me is that it was only a couple of weeks ago that the Australian government way upset that China sailed a ship in international water along the Australian coast, but as it turns out we have been flying Surveillance aircraft up there routinely.

As for dangerous intercepts and manoeuvres, this has been almost common between nations that are trying to intimidate other forces who they believe are being to intrusive.

Check out this old footage of Russian bombers doing low passes over US aircraft carriers.