White collar workers, how are you fairing?

Hi all,

I'm due to start work next year in one of the financial services firms. I have been reading that in recessionary environments that its is white collar workers who feel it first and that the whole concept of work/life balance pretty much goes out the window. So my question is; has this occurred already? Have your working conditions changed considerably?

sammy84 said:

Hi all,

I'm due to start work next year in one of the financial services firms. I have been reading that in recessionary environments that its is white collar workers who feel it first and that the whole concept of work/life balance pretty much goes out the window. So my question is; has this occurred already? Have your working conditions changed considerably?

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It's pretty debatable.

Low income families have been feeling it for a while - taking out loans which they cant repay, while the white collars at the bank are quite happy until it all turns to s%^t!

My working conditions haven't changed, Tho i know some people at Adelaide bank who are fearing they may lose their jobs.

No change, but I am a white collar worker in a blue collar industry. I haven't seen that much change in the sentiment of my friends in white collar industry, everyone is pretty upbeat, just complaining about their share portfolios tanking.

m.

I'm in the property/funds mgt game.

Not good at the moment. No construction, no redevelopments, no new funds, everyone preserving capital and cutting costs.

Outlook for employment in the sector - one day at a time and many will be looking for work in the new year.

Good luck. Remember you learn the most when times are tough.

I am not quite true white collar, but do work in an office, so close. Business is slow, but workload hasn't changed much for me.

I was in a similar position to you 8 or so years ago. I was studying IT at uni (more specifically web development), all was going fine, all the talk was over 6 figure salaries, how I would graduate and make lots of money, and then just as I graduated... dot com crashed.

It was hard to find a job immediately afterwards. The position I had lined up collapsed, and I had at the last minute find a new one. Ended up working for a large corporate, hated it, and within 6 months went and worked for a medium business. In the end, yes, that company collapsed as well, myself learning a lot in the process. Over time things gradually improved and the industry found some normalcy, and positions were available more freely.

It was a good learning experience those couple of years, and I think as a result I have learned a lot about changing industries, and it's relation to now.

So my only advice, is be dedicated, keep belief in yourself, be confident and well spoken above the next guy, get whatever advice from people you can. Whatever happens, eventually things will improve, and those harder times will be strong learning experiences which will make you a better worker in good times.

The other thing I firmly believe in is working for a small or medium business rather than a large corp where you will simply become a number (to be maybe shown the door simply as some accountant has run the ruler across things). Whereas in a smaller organisation you can really learn more directly, and be/know you are a valuable part of the company, and are also more directly accountable for your own actions, which I think are valuable skills to have. Of course, maybe that is just me, you may be the sort that thrives in a larger environment. But it is one thing to remember, every company is different.

So anyhow, while not the exact same area of you, probably went through a similar period you are entering, graduating with one boom ending (in your case the finance one). Try and see it as a challenge you will fight your way through, and come out the other side stronger for it. You may not feel that in one, even two years time, but in five or ten you may well.

I still have one year left in my finance degree, and dont hold much hope for getting the type of job i want straight out of uni anymore. I know people that work in the area and employement has dried up for graduates, especially when there arte others out there who have been recenlty sacked ie - BNB staff.

Not too sure what im going to do yet. I'll still apply for the jobs i want, but if i dont get them im seriously considering a Masters degree

In general, anything which is directly related to "frontline" operations is usually safer than anything which isn't. For example, an airline will keep flying planes as long as they can put bums on seats at a profit. So they'll still need pilots etc. But they won't likely be spending on a new IT system or renovating the offices while times are tough.

And if you're going to be any kind of consultant or contractor, you want to be fully charged against a billable project and not to company overheads if you want to be safer in the job.

At my joint, the social budget has been reduced to effectively zero, and 7% of the workers had lost their jobs last month. We have also waved good by to payrises/bonuses. We are now going to be pretty happy if we get to keep our jobs.

I work for a state government so I am not feeling the pinch, but then again, I'm not getting paid as much as a private company counterpart.

I do know that IBM have cut back on things. They have stopped their execs travelling business class and they have cancelled a heap of training they usually send people away for.

Im on workcover for the next 3 months so I know im safe for atleast a quarter !



Once I do resume though ive spread my work across 2 parttime jobs and a small business, love the variety and works well/spreads the risk in this much anticipated recession ...

My brother though works in the Automotive industry - he told me the owner of the dealership he works for called a meeting recently spelling out how bad things had got and said his dealership was fine ( famous last words? ) but the industry expects upto 50 percent of car dealerships across Australia to close ( mainly the smaller ones ) - amazing huh !

Be proactive if youre in an industry facing a massive downturn ( ie / finance etc ) - dont wait for the worst/enevitable.

Prawn im in a similar situation finishing next year.
would be interested to hear about the job you wanted compared to what you think you will have to take at the moment if you dont mind explaining

Just curious

(woo first post)

I also have 3 semesters left of my commerce degree and while my passion is in finance I've taken a side step and going to get my accounting major first. Lucky for me I actually don't lose any time in changing between the two and I've nearly landed myself a part time tax accounting job.

If you can muscle your way through the accounting subjects I believe it's only 5 subjects on top of your degree if you want to swing that way.

It's a pity though since I walked into my latest finance exam 20 minutes late, finished 15 minutes early and got a 7 for it...

prawn_86 said:

I still have one year left in my finance degree, and dont hold much hope for getting the type of job i want straight out of uni anymore. I know people that work in the area and employement has dried up for graduates, especially when there arte others out there who have been recenlty sacked ie - BNB staff.

Not too sure what im going to do yet. I'll still apply for the jobs i want, but if i dont get them im seriously considering a Masters degree

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Pity that...the finance and accounting industry has left grads competing against employees from Allco, BNB etc.

Times a tough and recruitment agencies can hardly find openings.

Prawn - IMO it would be better of to pursue the postgrad course in the field you want to undertake e.g. CA or CFA. Masters in Australia is a bit of a waste of time IMHO

stock nub said:

Prawn im in a similar situation finishing next year.
would be interested to hear about the job you wanted compared to what you think you will have to take at the moment if you dont mind explaining

Just curious

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I wanted to work for an investment bank as an analyst or something along the lines and eventually get into funds management.

Now virtually the only people within finance still hiring are financial planners, which isnt my ideal job.

mazzatelli1000 said:

Pity that...the finance and accounting industry has left grads competing against employees from Allco, BNB etc.

Times a tough and recruitment agencies can hardly find openings.

Prawn - IMO it would be better of to pursue the postgrad course in the field you want to undertake e.g. CA or CFA. Masters in Australia is a bit of a waste of time IMHO

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I'll look into CFA Mazz, although a lot of employers i have spoken too have said a master of finance would be advantageous, and the one im looking at you do get some credit for CFA.

Bushman said:

I'm in the property/funds mgt game.

Not good at the moment. No construction, no redevelopments, no new funds, everyone preserving capital and cutting costs.

Outlook for employment in the sector - one day at a time and many will be looking for work in the new year.

Good luck. Remember you learn the most when times are tough.

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At the other end (Construction)
Still seeing plenty of tenders.
Getting our share.
Certainly seeing requests for advice on cutting costs.
Pricing finely to make sure we are at the top of the tender list for consideration.
Currently our pre bookings are Normal.

Friend who is a Financial planner suggested to many clients to go cash in March.
Advised another who wanted to invest $250,000 in BHP to hold off at around the same time.
Consequently his business is going well as recommendations re his prudent calls from clients become recognised.

Remember you learn the most when times are tough.

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And its only after those times that you realise how true this is.
Ive been very very close to bankruptcy twice,those experiences did 2 things.
(1) Teach me how to handle those extreme cases.
(2) Teach me how to avoid it---a skill many will require this time round--and one which will see me never visit dire circumstances again.

tech/a said:

At the other end (Construction)
Still seeing plenty of tenders.
Getting our share.
Certainly seeing requests for advice on cutting costs.
Pricing finely to make sure we are at the top of the tender list for consideration.
Currently our pre bookings are Normal.

Friend who is a Financial planner suggested to many clients to go cash in March.
Advised another who wanted to invest $250,000 in BHP to hold off at around the same time.
Consequently his business is going well as recommendations re his prudent calls from clients become recognised.



And its only after those times that you realise how true this is.
Ive been very very close to bankruptcy twice,those experiences did 2 things.
(1) Teach me how to handle those extreme cases.
(2) Teach me how to avoid it---a skill many will require this time round--and one which will see me never visit dire circumstances again.

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Thanks for the feedback mate.

We mostly look at the commercial sector (office, retail, industrial) and this sector is feeling the brunt at the moment due to:
1. Investor 'flight to safety' due to the mutual funds debacle and, off course, market volatility - hence no new equity;
2. Increases in the cost of funding;
3. Uncertainty creeping into the leasing market (business confidence based); and
2. The large over hang off secondary stock placing uncertainty on valuations and thus LVRs (call it the Centro effect).

As they say, a 'perfect storm'.

I am assuming you are in residential - outlook still good for that sector due to the housing shortage (this will not just go away even though individuals are delaying decisions for a few months).

Yep learned a lot in the last 12 months - Gen X'r experiencing a good old fashioned property downturn for the first time. Best lesson - liquidity is the number one 'fundamental' of the property sector (I was in high school in 1991-1992)! Second lesson - watch those equity-based remuneration packages (I was at Centro - ouch)!

I will make sure that I am 'recession proof' next time around.

Best wishes to all the students having to look for a job by the way. I feel for you guys but you will have heads up on me when I started as you will be prepared for the next downturn. Time and innovation is on your side.

Bushman said:

Best wishes to all the students having to look for a job by the way. I feel for you guys but you will have heads up on me when I started as you will be prepared for the next downturn. Time and innovation is on your side.

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Yeh i agree here. Assuming we dont slide into the end of the financial world and armageddon, then when things do pick up again at least we will know what the bad times were like.

Even now i am looking for other ways and opportunities to make small income streams so i am not soley reliant on finding a job straight after uni...

Bushman said:

Best wishes to all the students having to look for a job by the way. I feel for you guys but you will have heads up on me when I started as you will be prepared for the next downturn. Time and innovation is on your side.

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After continually being asked, "Why are you studying that? You'll never get a job", by these types, I don't have much sympathy for commerce, finance, econs students et al.

They might realise one of the reasons people do study like what I'm doing, if the private sector dries up.

prawn_86 said:

Even now i am looking for other ways and opportunities to make small income streams so i am not soley reliant on finding a job straight after uni...

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Ever thought of getting a job as an office hand or anything like that in the public service Prawn? Once you're in, it's easy to move around. Get into an area that suits you. Gives you job security, can give you allowances for post-grad to help you get out of there quicker.

It's what I'm looking at, as I'm about 12 months away from being able to graduate depending. Was planning on just putting any money earned from that into the market. But my work has reduced quite a lot. The last 6 months have seen bookings for me down about 15% on the same time last year (have had a broken ankle in this period which hasn't helped either), and the retirees have basically stopped, which was a big part of my business. The 3 months to Christmas, usually my busiest period, looks very bad this year.

chops_a_must said:

Ever thought of getting a job as an office hand or anything like that in the public service Prawn? Once you're in, it's easy to move around. Get into an area that suits you. Gives you job security, can give you allowances for post-grad to help you get out of there quicker.

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Yeh, i have looked at the treasury depts and the like and will apply to them when the time comes. I agree they have benefits so i will just wait and see what i am offered i guess (if anything)

prawn_86 said:

Now virtually the only people within finance still hiring are financial planners, which isnt my ideal job.

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Not true, I have been trying to make a career change into this and have not been successful for the last few months. This is after doing absolutely everything I can, studied in DFP, gained RG146, lots of networkings, interviews, excellent resume/cl, professional mentoring program (first of its kind in Brisbane), lots of practices in roleplay interview with mentor, and even more networking. It is just practically impossible to get into this industry right now without some sort of relevant experiences. The worst time for me to make a career change.

My mentor who works as a state manager of a major bank has been telling me of a complete hire freeze on junior level FPs (CSO, paraplanners) and noted that other firms have started to make a few of them redundant. Got the exact same news from my other mentor.

Do you know that I applied for a graduate position in CBA (Financial Planning) and there were 1700 applicants and they only looking for ONE graduate in Brisbane? I was lucky enough to be short listed to 80 ppls for interview without a relevant bachelor degree.

The only financial service job that is in demand are SENIOR financial planners. My mentor has been looking for one in her region and took almost 4 months just to fill it. She also has been commenting about how many junior applicants she been getting from recruitment agencies.

It's really really bad out there. I'm still quite stressful about it right now after spending a year preparing for it and end up stuck in a wall because of the financial crisis.

So if you are starting off as a graduate with little to no relevant experiences, best of luck of you. Though my experiences are based in Brisbane only, maybe there are better chances if you are in Sydney.